What would you do if the forum had a subscription fee (to post classifieds, etc)?

I'm new to the forum and was really surprised that there was no voluntary subscription even. I have no problems with paying, but I do like the idea that those who do not wish (or can not afford) to pay can still be members and use the site. Identifying subscribers with an icon beneath their forum name or avatar is a good idea. Most people would, I hope, pay. I think its crazy to assume that just one person should bear all the costs in time and money for all of our benefits!

And then they'll just sell on ebay.

Which is fine, as they don't contribute to the forum in any other way anyway.

If they used the same email address then you're fine, duplicates were removed.
Cheers VB.

Which is fine, as they don't contribute to the forum in any other way anyway.

That's an opinion, but not really one I share. I haven't bought that much from the classified section (and have never actually sold anything, although I've tried). Nonetheless, I enjoy it. If some people only want to sell things, and we forumengers are able to reap rewards from this, I am thrilled. If some people only want to sell things, and the prices are stupid or the wares a joke, we'll take the piss and have a good laugh (usually - dogballs doesn't count).

I still worry that a subscription system that allows you to sell thing will result in a drop in the classifieds section (although I have no way of actually knowing this. Although I'm sure those random posts from people on the continent will dry up - and would some of the best sellers on the forum actually have joined in the first place if they were asked for cash up front? I don't know the answer to this, but maybe no?).

What is more, I think enforcing it will be tedious and annoying. You'll often see classified in the polo section of the forum (for polo related things - balls, piping, ski-poles, and polo-related bikes and parts). This would have to change I guess.

I'm all for supporting the forum through a subscription if that's what VB deems necessary, I just worry about the affect it will have on classifieds if it becomes classified centric.

I've read hundreds of responses and am teetering towards NOT implementing a subscription model. However, if another motherfucker just dare try and present a serious argument to the view that I don't have a right to earn even a trivially small token amount from the forum... then really, you'll have guaranteed that I do.

Do you promise to abide by the above?

If so then I'll write a lengthy and partly abusive diatribe insisting that you are an evil capitalist pig who deserves to be raped by a goat faced hybrid rider. That should hopefully, eventually, convince you to sort things out and draw some reward from this site that is monetarily more tangible than an electronically provided pat on the back.

I was just waiting for that ;)

I think we should all pay - its a great forum... and worth paying a few bob each year - not least since VB has to do all the work while we tap away each day... I say pay...!!
also... keeps the rif raf out too...

I don't have any intention to cash in or sell out, but just fucking try and tell me that with the time, effort, skill and devotion that I've put in, that I don't have the right to. Just fucking try. You're so wrong.

Why not implement a banner advert or google ads, and have the £3/year thing for people who want an ad-free site? Win-win surely? I can't see anyone refusing to use the site just because there is an advert on it, though I could understand why you might not want to "sell out" as it were.

Also, if there are people using the classifieds forum commercially to make a profit for themselves (rather than most people who are trying to get rid of stuff they don't need), they should be required to pay subs.

I actively think that you SHOULD make a fair profit from the time you invest into the site, from users' point of view, it provides you with an incentive to make the site even better. :)

Also, merchandise... I might just buy an LFGSS double-sized mug (or three) if there was one available. :)

maybe only implement the paying fee after you have been a member for a month (access to everything, e.g a trial) i know that when i first came here would not of paid anything and moved on now a few months onwards even though i dont live in london, havent bought much (except a bike ;) ) and have recieved a fair amount of knowledge i would be happy to pay around a £5 annual fee :)

I shall take out a subsequent student loan and pay it all to VB ;)

Opening this up to debate and sending out the surveys was an excellent idea, I think it's important to gauge a reaction of current members. I'm pretty sure that the positives will out-weigh the negatives if you were to install a sufficient subscription-fee based system, as long as it attempts to account for very young or new member in someway, and within reason amount-wise.

I'd give you £3, or even the full 3xBeer of 9 quid just because i dont think you should have to pay the server bill yourself. Youve created this forum, lots of people use it and noone pays but you.

Thing is.. I dont see that any perks could possibly be of any value. People only find ways round em and the only thing that happens is the 'locked' sections suffer real bad and people stop using them. Ive seen this happen with forums before and it usually spells the death of em.

Have you ever considered selling advertising? Just stick a couple banners about the place. Maybe flog google a bit of space and let em run their clever 'directed advertising' in it. I'm sure noone would object and there's got to be a mountain of brands etc who'd happily stump up a lot more than 1 beer a year in exchange.

It's interesting how pretty much everybody who is in favour posts here, and most of those not in favour apparently get in touch with Velocio personally through e-mails, and of course voting in the survey.

I think a yearly subscription fee for classifieds would be entirely fair, if it would also mean dispensing with the need for the current "48-hours + 5 sensible posts" restriction on new users. The smaller the fee, the less likely it is to deter people from registering, so £3 p/a may well lead to the same net income as the higher figures mooted. One only has to browse the older classifieds to see how useful they have been, and are likely to remain - provided there are plenty of people using the section.

Don't know if this has already been mentioned.....buuuuttttt

A successful system on another forum has been that you pay a one off payment to the forum, e.g. 10 squids, and that results in getting a little avatar thing underneat your name which sets you apart from the rest of the crowd.

The perks of this are in the classifieds section you get reduced postage or 'mates rates' so to speak, e.g. a donator would charge 5 quid postage for some shit but less (or nothing) to another donator.

You also look mega wicked/cool/awesome with your swill avatar thing underneat your name...

I don't think a 'status symbol' idea is the best.. Just have some perks and keep the payments between Velocio and whoever decides to pay

Ah, but there's the rub. How do we charge for something (avatars for example) that people are already used to having for free?

Of course, when the forum was small effectively the whole thing was free as it was so small it could live on a server being used for another purpose and there were no charges (for the first few months). But as the forum grew the site has required not only its own server but a second server too... so something that once was very free now has a real cost.

That's understood but it's only really understood by the minority, and the majority would have a problem with a perceived change of something free becoming something paid. (More than half are against the subscription idea, but yet still upvoted the amount to make the subscription!)

I'm likely to stick with donations and merchandise, but am veering towards indicating those who have donated. The survey has had over 1,200 responses and I'm getting the message that more than half of the membership would not like subscriptions yet do actually feel that if there is a cost it should be covered by the members.

There have also been many emails saying how much it's appreciated that it is low on adverts and sponsorship, that the neutrality is highly valued. So obviously if that is something that is of value then it must be understood that if money isn't coming from that then it's coming from elsewhere.

The bottom line is that the users pay one way or another. If it's advertising or sponsorship then you pay twice, once by the intrusion onto the site, and once by the fact that whatever is being sold included the cost of marketing it here. If it's merchandise you get something tangible but only a fraction of the cost will fund the servers. Donations are the most efficient way of funding without having involved a third party (save for PayPal deducting fees)... so they do seem the smartest thing to do.

In my mind it's about how to distribute the donations evenly so that the small minority who fund the site heavily (and aside form my annual £500-ish donation there are quite a few instances of £100 and £50 donations) don't have to simply because more people are giving so less has to be given by each donor.

1,200 donors at £3 per year (taking into account PayPal fees) would cover everything and spare you all from adverts, etc. And this is effectively the "beer a year" thing. That's why I like it... it's immensely affordable by the vast majority, and it creates a nice steady stream of income that is predictable... none of this "we're OK for the next 4 months" rubbish, just "we're OK".

Anyhow, we're OK for the next 4 months now. It would've been 5, but the bills for last month arrived a few days ago.

But the status symbol could be someones foot with loads of notes sticking out of their sock. That would be cool.

Wow, so many tightarses around.

I'm likely to stick with donations and merchandise, but am veering towards indicating those who have donated.

Simple solution: Bring back rep for those who've donated. Judging from past experience, they'll be all over it like flies on shit. Sorted. ;)

I was just waiting for that ;)

Without prejudice.

I rescind my offer of numerous beers per year. Moreover I wish you to delete all of my accounts and ban all my work and home IP addresses from this piss poor excuse for a forum.. I could put up with the abuse, I could stand the frequently annoying in-jokes, I could turn a blind eye to the perpetual mocking of ScottishAmerican frame builders and the bullying perpetrated to newbs by the old guard (I mean you Mr. Smith, BMMF, Platini, Pistanator, Object17, Scott not Scot et al). But, the frequent bastardisation of punctuation into emoticons is ridiculous. I can no longer associate myself with the LondonFGSS forum and the decrepit morons within.

You, Sir, are an asshat of epic proportion.

something that once was very free now has a real cost.

That's understood but it's only really understood by the minority, and the majority would have a problem with a perceived change of something free becoming something paid. (More than half are against the subscription idea, but yet still upvoted the amount to make the subscription!)

I'm likely to stick with donations and merchandise, but am veering towards indicating those who have donated. The survey has had over 1,200 responses and I'm getting the message that more than half of the membership would not like subscriptions yet do actually feel that if there is a cost it should be covered by the members.

forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, almost half the respondents are saying they don't want a subscription model, and would rather donate, but have they done so?
Will having a donate icon, next to your name and avatar, really propel those who don't donate to do so? Will the buy the forum a beer message have to be shown more prominently to remind people to actually put money into the forum?

I feel the subscription model at least gives you a sense of how much money will be coming in, and you can then send out reminders to the people if they haven't done so, or on the anniversary of their joining, and that the donations avenue leaves the forum at the mercy of those who say they would/will donate and don't, and that as we grow we'll need more than the donations to keep the place going and having a subscription model in place, funding will hopefully keep pace with the growth of the forum..

forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, almost half the respondents are saying they don't want a subscription model, and would rather donate, but have they done so?
Will having a donate icon, next to your name and avatar, really propel those who don't donate to do so? Will the buy the forum a beer message have to be shown more prominently to remind people to actually put money into the forum?

I feel the subscription model at least gives you a sense of how much money will be coming in, and you can then send out reminders to the people if they haven't done so, or on the anniversary of their joining, and that the donations avenue leaves the forum at the mercy of those who say they would/will donate and don't, and that as we grow we'll need more than the donations to keep the place going and having a subscription model in place, funding will hopefully keep pace with the growth of the forum..

So... voluntary subscriptions? Basically commitment to donating annually.

And the survey wasn't as complex as it probably should've been. More than half were in the "unwilling" segment to pay for a subscription... but yet 2/3 of all recipients put down 2 beers a year (£6) as the amount that they felt was fair.

So it's a contradiction, "No we don't want feature based subscription" but "we do feel that £6 per year is fair". Which I've interpreted as a willingness to donate what they felt was fair since they feel that feature based subscription isn't cool. My interpretation may be whack though. Serves me right for making an overly simplistic survey.

If the survey has done nothing else but highlight people's willingness to pay for the forum then its all good, and if the majority of members favour a donations based subscription model then maybe that's the way it needs to be, as I said previously you may have to go against your desire to not ask for money, by having a bit more of a message to the donate buttond, maybe turn it into a pint glass, and ask "have you bought the forum a beer, or two, or three, this year?" something like that to remind people that they still need to donate.

So... voluntary subscriptions? Basically commitment to donating annually.

And the survey wasn't as complex as it probably should've been. More than half were in the "unwilling" segment to pay for a subscription... but yet 2/3 of all recipients put down 2 beers a year (£6) as the amount that they felt was fair.

So it's a contradiction, "No we don't want feature based subscription" but "we do feel that £6 per year is fair". Which I've interpreted as a willingness to donate what they felt was fair since they feel that feature based subscription isn't cool. My interpretation may be whack though. Serves me right for making an overly simplistic survey.

Did the survey have a 'reasons' list for not wanting to contribute (I can't remember if it did or not)?
Something like:
a) 'ethically against' paying for things
b) too stingey
c) can't be bothered
d) spent all my money on my computer and internet connection so now have literally no money

No.

I didn't really put much thought into the survey truth be told. I'm sure you must've guessed that.

Three questions:
1) Willing to subscribe?
2) What features would you want as a subscriber?
3) How much should it be (in beers per year)?

There's a whole range of things that in hindsight I should've asked. But then, I like that it was a quick survey, I hate it when I get long surveys that go on for what feels like a lifetime.