Has anyone read...

Bad blood by Jeremy Whittle? Just read it and was completely deflated after, wondered what everyone else thought?

Hippy, have you read this ?

What you reading for?

Was talking to a pal the other day about sprinting and Usain Bolt and he was saying that he's definitely on drugs which is kinda the way evryone looks at good cyslists. It made me think how gutted I'd be if I was in a sport like sprinting, cycling, weighlifting, etc and competing clean but the whole world just assumed you were just using the best chemist.

Bad Blood reinforces people opinions of the sport as filthy.

The sport still has an institutionalised doping problem which is why many people think it's filthy. It is probably doing as much, if not more, than other sports in cleaning up but drug use is endemic in professional road cycling. Whittle's book is interesting but doesn't tell you much you don't know already (assuming you follow the sport).

He's really got it in for Armstrong and talks alot about the 'Omerta' the silence over cyclists drug use.

guess i'm naive and want to believe in people..... sigh

Hippy, have you read this ?

I don't think so.

I'm a bit vague on which cycling books I've read and not read to be honest.
It's in my amazon wish list so I guess I've not bought it yet.

I don't think so.

I'm a bit vague on which cycling books I've read and not read to be honest.
It's in my amazon wish list so I guess I've not bought it yet.

Good grief, no need for your life story, I am just trying to get you to the 20k.

And I don't want to hear about your filthy 'Amazon list'.

Hippy's 'amazon list' is purely a map of pygmy tribes - Midgets FTW

Good grief, no need for your life story, I am just trying to get you to the 20k. And I don't want to hear about your filthy 'Amazon list'.

Don't ask if you're scared of the answer. The amazon list knows all.

*Disclaimer: Beers have arrived. I have started drinking them. Posts will be angry and erratic from now until sobriety.

Bad blood by Jeremy Whittle? Just read it and was completely deflated after, wondered what everyone else thought?

You probably don't want to start reading the Cyclingfansanonymous blog then.
And the idea that Usain Bolt might be clean made me laugh out loud.

Bad Blood reinforces people opinions of the sport as filthy.

The sport is bloody filthy. Previous to this year who was the last TdF winner that you might reasonably believe to be clean? Greg Lemond; and he's older than me.
We'd need a thread as long as the car thread just to skim the surface of drug taking in cycling, even if we restricted it to the last 20 years. As AndyP says, things are improving and the testing is much better than it was (or has ever been in athletics, football, tennis, etc etc) but the clean up is only necessary because cycling has always been a sport where doping was routine.

Tis' a grim read indeed but as mentioned previously not alot you didnt know already. Quite ironic that Whittle himself has perpetuated the Omerta in abstaining to name the various 'heroes' known to be drug cheats in the inner circles, for fear of defamation or otherwise. He only throws up the usual suspects in Armstrong, Pantani, Millar, Basso & Ulrich and the various Disco boys, the majority of which are already confirmed cheats. Although there is a secondary references to Nardello and Pozatto, which I admit I got some satisfaction from. (read Dirty cheating Italians!!) Would have enjoyed if he included more chit cat and anecdotes that im sure he's been privy to.

One of the better stories he includes is about a racer he's chatting to who pulls on/off his jersey only for his 'products' to fall to the ground. Unfortunately said rider was not named...

Cyclingfansanonymous is a bit more open in that regard.

The sport is bloody filthy. Previous to this year who was the last TdF winner that you might reasonably believe to be clean? Greg Lemond; and he's older than me.
We'd need a thread as long as the car thread just to skim the surface of drug taking in cycling, even if we restricted it to the last 20 years. As AndyP says, things are improving and the testing is much better than it was (or has ever been in athletics, football, tennis, etc etc) but the clean up is only necessary because cycling has always been a sport where doping was routine.

Hmmm

I dare so there hasn't been a Grand Tour winner who hasn't been whacked out of his gourd or spent the off season getting prepared with his doctor

There's been cheating in the Tour since it started.
Nothing has changed except the methods by which riders cheat.

Hippy's 'amazon list' is purely a map of pygmy tribes - Midgets FTW

that dude is giving some lewd glances towards them's girls.

And the idea that Usain Bolt might be clean made me laugh out loud.

Why is this laughable? I see no reason why an athlete could not run 9.59 seconds. Times for the 100m have been falling for years as have the number of caught cheats.

I used to run and have broke 10.8 a handful of times. Why could the best sprinter in the world not be 10% better? I'm sure the best cyclists in the world are 10% better than the most club cyclists.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080817043735AA2g3ye

Why is this laughable? I see no reason why an athlete could not run 9.59 seconds. Times for the 100m have been falling for years as have the number of caught cheats.

I used to run and have broke 10.8 a handful of times. Why could the best sprinter in the world not be 10% better? I'm sure the best cyclists in the world are 10% better than the most club cyclists.

The Jamaican athletics federation has no out of competition testing programme and a very limited in competition testing programme. Join the dots.

I choose to believe.

Hmmm

I dare so there hasn't been a Grand Tour winner who hasn't been whacked out of his gourd or spent the off season getting prepared with his doctor

Anecdotal evidence would suggest that Lemond was clean, i.e. the testimony of his peers. He was genetically gifted with a VO2 max measure that was pretty phenomenal, 92.5 I believe (Armstrong's is in the low 80s by all accounts).

Given Lemond's vociferous anti-doping stance then he'd have to be pretty confident there were no skeletons in his closet that could return to haunt him. He also suffered at the hands of the EPO generation, i.e. the likes of Indurain, Bugno and Chiappucci who were also rans prior to the 1991 Tour.

I choose to believe.

That's your choice.

I used to believe in professional cycling but the last 10 years have eradicated any belief I had. Why cycling should be alone amongst sports in terms of drug usage is a question I think I can answer.

http://www.preventdisease.com/news/articles/vo2_max_how_fit_athlete.shtml

Armstrong's reported: 85