Italian vs Keirin

So I'm in the market for a frame for my first build (finally!!) Just for street riding so nothing professional.
I'm 5'11" so i am looking at 54 - 56 cm.
I'm kinda in talks a bout a couple of different frames from a couple of people.
This is what it has come down to

Keirin
Umezawa 55 -st 55 -tt £400
Yanagisawa 54 -st 54.5 - tt £400
Reminton 52.5 -st 53.5 -tt £400
Giro 52.5 -st 53.5 -tt £380

Italian
Scapin 57-st 57-tt £400

or the wild card

Cinelli vigorelli 54 cm for £300

Now my question is which one would you guys recommend and are the prices acceptable?
I'm leaning to the cinelli (although not steel) at the moment but I'm easily swayed.

I like Italian. My personal preference is for italian made columbus frames covered in campag and 3t, but you have to go with what works for you.

have you sat on any of these bikes or do you have a reference effective top tube measurement that you know fits you? (with an average 90-110 stem)

FWIW i'm 6ft1 and ride a 55 with a 55.5 effective top tube(which is a perfect fit)

i would buy the one that's the correct size for you.

The Reminton and Giro will be too small and the Scapin too big

The Scapin will definitely be too big. Whereas it'll fit me! Who's selling? ;-)

Italian coz Italian girlz r hot! ;) (I'm not helping much am I)

andyp – sent you the guys email for the scapin. I kinda figured it was too big..

Thanks - was joking though. I'm still trying to get my latest (Italian) purchase over here from LA.

have you sat on any of these bikes or do you have a reference effective top tube measurement that you know fits you? (with an average 90-110 stem)

FWIW i'm 6ft1 and ride a 55 with a 55.5 effective top tube(which is a perfect fit)

i would buy the one that's the correct size for you.

Strange you should say that, I am 6"2 and I have a frame which is 58x58
BB centre to top tube and I feel it is probably a cm too small for me. I have 130 stem and it is upto the max and the seat is quite high too.

I reckon I could have done with a 59 or even possibly a 60

But yep, size, as they say is everything

Latests purchase is a 56x56, with an 11cm stem, I'm 6ft so should be a glove for me (find a 55 slightly to small), but the dude who I'm buying it off says he's 5'9" !! Guess some people like there frames on the big side.

Just for street riding so nothing professional.

Keirin
Umezawa 55 -st 55 -tt £400
Yanagisawa 54 -st 54.5 - tt £400
Reminton 52.5 -st 53.5 -tt £400
Giro 52.5 -st 53.5 -tt £380

well Keirin racing is professional, so that rules out all those frames.

the cinelli is a good track frame, not a good road frame and can't comment on the scapin cos I haven't seen one.

As for frame size, people like different fits and it is to do with all sorts of things like proportions, flexibility, habit, preference, engineering, ruling bodies and inevitably fashion. Your height is only one factor, more importantly it should be split between inside leg (proper, the fact you wear 32" leg jeans or whatever is not an accurate gauge) and torso length.

A good place to start re the complicated and by no means absolute world of sizing is
http://www2.bsn.de/Cycling/ergobike.html

That said, factor in that track bikes don't fit quite like road bikes and that you probably aren't that worried and we are probably back to where we started.

go dutch

Things that make a difference to me are bottom bracket height vs headtube length. High BB short headtube against lower BB longer headtube but on same size frame can make a big difference on saddle to bar height drop which is difficult to get around without having a stupidly high stem (unless you like the Rivendell look of course!)

cough apologies to those who are sick of me peddling (ooooh hello) my wares

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread9911.html

The only think that is consistence on all my bikes is centre of (top of) saddle to centre of handlebars (stem clamp), and centre top of saddle to centre BB, measurements. Thats my 'size'. 66cm for both springs to mind, but I could be wrong.

go dutch

might find a spliff in the frame tubes ^^ just a thought.