Crank Help!

Can you help. I am a bit new to all this but recently bought myself this Bob Jackson - I think it is 1956 one careful owner - then he sold it to me! The crank set was original to the bike and recently i believe the spindle has bent and needs replacing. However it is such an unusual shape that even Bob Jackson are recommending I install a new crank set as this cannot be repaired or replaced. I think this bike needs its original cranks - i love the look of them and don't want to replace them with a modern set. What shall I do??

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS BEFORE?

WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?

DO YOU KNOW OF A MODERN SET THAT COULD NEARLY REPLICATE THE LOOK OF THE OLD?

DO YOU KNOW A GREAT MECHANIC WHO WOULD TAKE THIS ON AS A PROJECT?

I really want to get back on the road so am tempted to give in and just get a new set installed. PLEAE HELP ME!!

Thank you!

Phil

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Welcome.

Splined cranks !!!! I didn't think splined cranks made an appearance until the 1990's !??

Also I can't imagine how you would bend a spindle, those things are pretty thick.

If it is steel, I think you should try and straighten it, get someone who knows what they are doing to heat it and then set it straight. (??)

Failing all that a vintage Campagnolo (ebay) might come pretty close on looks and suit your BJ.

Nice bike by the way.

hmm. Now thinking it may not be the spindle?? Bike shop were pretty unclear and were basically saying get over yourself and get a new set installed! If I had the tools I'd take it apart myself and try to get to the bottom of it! Am using a great website to learn the basics: http://bicycletutor.com/
Thanks for the advice!

They look quite like TA Specialites cranks.
YOu can find a pair pretty easily to keep the look you want.

EDIT - actually I just noticed they are unusual with two sets of bolts? one for the spider and one for the chainring.. perhaps campag then? nice bike.

hmm. Now thinking it may not be the spindle?? Bike shop were pretty unclear and were basically saying get over yourself and get a new set installed!

What bike shop was it ?

If I had the tools I'd take it apart myself and try to get to the bottom of it!

You can take that bottom bracket apart fairly easily with a screw driver and a hammer.

Put the screw driver in the notches on the lock ring and tap it around to get it off.

Do the same with the cups - get something to stick into those little holes on the outside of the cups (maybe a long screw or thin phillips screwdriver or just some bit of metal) and again gently tap it around to loosen and unscrew.

And that is it !

Just remember that both sides turn towards the front of the bike (like the wheels turn when going forward) - that is: one side is reverse threaded.

If you get some TA cranks then that spider setup will probably fit them.
...just realised - D'oh!

aha! Right I'm going to set to and do that. Give it a proper inspection. The bike shop was London Fields Cycles. Very nice people and a nice shop but when I said well do you think I should get BJ to take a look at it they said "Oh are they still going?". Well you can't have done that much research into fixing it if you don't k now the company that made the bike in the first place is still going!

If you get some TA cranks then that spider setup will probably fit them.
...just realised - D'oh!

Really - so I keep the chain ring and spider and you think the cranks will fit?? I like the look of them - would you order direct?

EDIT: just to be clear - when I say . . .

"Just remember that both sides turn towards the front of the bike (like the wheels turn when going forward) - that is: one side is reverse threaded."

I mean when taking the cups and lock ring off: the drive side cup turns clockwise - the non-driveside cup and lock ring turns counterclockwise.

got it! Thanks for clarification....

Really - so I keep the chain ring and spider and you think the cranks will fit?? I like the look of them - would you order direct?

I will have a spare pair of the TA in about 2 weeks. someone on this forum probably has some laying around...
Also Stronglight had a similar model -

EBAY costliness.

^ cranks are worth less than the chainring!
You can see that the cranks / chainrings were interchangeable, thats why i suspect yours may also fit.

wow the stronglight ones are great looking! I really like the chain ring also. Thanks!

.

you're welcome to borrow my tools to take it apart/fit new cranks mate.
just pm if you need them.

Off to bed! THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP EVERYONE!!

Do the same with the cups - get something to stick into those little holes on the outside of the cups (maybe a long screw or thin phillips screwdriver or just some bit of metal) and again gently tap it around to loosen and unscrew.

I'm not sure I'd risk this. If you can find someone/shop that has the right cup removal tool then use it. I had an incident where a bike shop said they the correct cup removal tool for a Royce BB. They didn't and ended up stripping two of the six small holes in the cup. Now I have to get the frame's BB shell heated in order to get the cups out in conjunction WITH the correct royce tool :(

You could try Witcombes in Deptford

otherwise

you can try out these guys:

www.classicrendezvous.com/

Good luck

I'm not sure I'd risk this.

This method always worked for me, if you do it slowly and methodically you should be fine. I even install BBs this way if a pin spanner and lock ring tool are not to hand.

But I have to agree that if you can go and buy a pin spanner and a lock ring tool, it makes the job easier.

pin spanner is the easiest tool in the work to make aside from a hammer. if your unsure on it take a bolt that fits into the hole and put a screw driver between it and the axle and use it like a spanner. if you can get a chunk of metal then two holes and two bolts you have a pin spanner (you may need a hole in the middle too) . hell i've even seen it done with a peice of wood and two nails. just go easy on it.

Those are Williams AB77 cranks - the finest British cranks available in the 1960s:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/williams_identification.html

You often see them installed on Moulton "S Speed" factory specials.

The bolt circle is the same as the TA 5vis/Stronglight 50.4mm, so you can fit the adapter and ring to TA Pro 5vis or Stronglight 49D cranks or a host of clones and copies. The ring is probably a 151mm bcd, which was the old track standard before 144mm took over.

In terms of splined crank history, Williams weren't the first: Gnutti were doing it in the fifties.

Wow - expertise! Can we see your bikes please one-eyed_jim?

Those are Williams AB77 cranks - the finest British cranks available in the 1960s:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/williams_identification.html

You often see them installed on Moulton "S Speed" factory specials.

The bolt circle is the same as the TA 5vis/Stronglight 50.4mm, so you can fit the adapter and ring to TA Pro 5vis or Stronglight 49D cranks or a host of clones and copies. The ring is probably a 151mm bcd, which was the old track standard before 144mm took over.

In terms of splined crank history, Williams weren't the first: Gnutti were doing it in the fifties.

have to admit that's impressive.

Nice bike :)

hehe,

"they still going?"

"...Do condor still have that little shop on grays?"

Those are Williams AB77 cranks - the finest British cranks available in the 1960s:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/williams_identification.html

You often see them installed on Moulton "S Speed" factory specials.

The bolt circle is the same as the TA 5vis/Stronglight 50.4mm, so you can fit the adapter and ring to TA Pro 5vis or Stronglight 49D cranks or a host of clones and copies. The ring is probably a 151mm bcd, which was the old track standard before 144mm took over.

In terms of splined crank history, Williams weren't the first: Gnutti were doing it in the fifties.

Good information one-eyed - I used a set of AB77s when I was racing in the late 60s. They had the advantage of being able to use the popular TA rings (either their 50.4mm 5-bolt rings or their 6-bolt rings on their adapter) or Campagnolo rings (151mm BCD in that era) using the Williams adapter that pjoseph29 has.

You're right that they were the finest British cranks of the 60s but I went back to a Stronglight 49D/TA set-up after a couple of seasons due to the design flaw in the AB77s: because of the splined axle the corresponding splines in the cranks opened up at the pointed tips.

The problem for pjoseph29 in getting a period replacement is the crank extractors. The Williams AB77 extractor (which I still have) was more or less the same as Campagnolo's. The TA (a French company) extractor of the time was 23.0mm, Stronglight's (also a French company) was 23.15mm whereas everyone else was, and still is, using 22.0mm - aren't the French great?. Stronglight extractors of that size are now quite rare and relatively expensive. VAR do an extractor tool (no. 393) which is double ended: 22.0mm and 23.0mm so TA would be an option otherwise there were some Japanese cranks produced which used the 50.4mm BCD and so would take the TA rings which achieve the right look.

Wow! Amazing knowledge and advice! I am a bit lost I have to say! I could buy this stronglight set on ebay but do you think I can get them to fit? Would I try to fit the stronglight cranks to my chain ring, or simply replace with this chain ring?

I bow to your superior knowledge - I am a novice I'm afraid!

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SPEC ON THE STRONGLIGHT CRANKS

An Excellent Stronglight 49D & TA Combination.

The Cranks are 49D with 170mm length, excellent tapers and threads, the logos are the early ones with depose only (not Marque Depose). Attached is a good early Logo TA Dural Forged 52 Tooth Ring.

All in good order.