What makes a good frame?

Now that I am in the position for a new bike I have been looking at all the usual suspects: Mercian, Bob Jackson, Witcomb etc. It has raised the question: Why are these frames considered so good? Why is a bob jackson frame better than a langster? I know aforementioned bikes are hand made but does that make any difference in real usability terms? Or am I just paying for a name?

Materials, finish, fit, comfort, customisation options, repairability, buying stuff locally and a bloke called Donald you can phone up and have a chat about how your repair job under warranty is progressing.

Echo that, i think i've decided on a Bob Jackson, predominatly becuase i've only realy heard good things about them, whats the general consensus, and does anyone have a little one i could try out? i'm about 5'8" on a good day thinking 52 or 54 would be about the right size.

want a bike thats bullet proof so thinking phil wood/mavic cxp 33 wheelset, hubjub looks like a good deal, anyone got any experience of them?

You won't hear much said against Will @ Hubjub.

anyone got any experience of them?

He's a top bloke. Very, very helpful. Extremely fast postage too.

My BJ is 52cm and has CXP33 on Phils. (Check the Phil Wood distributor thread on the page for uber-cheap Phil sources from the USA. Get Arup Sen to build em for you.)

Due to a ahem fault involving a forgetful framemaker it is currently back at the factory being sorted as mentioned above. Once I get it back you can have a go!

Will signs every invoice. It's the little human touches that make an internet transaction seem more personal.

right thats 1/3rd of the project decided then,

bob jackson frames - go with standard or should i try to get them to build me with the oversize tubing they usually reserve for bigger ones, just as i want something a bit stiffer and have heard that they can be a bit wobbly around the BBs

anyone got any thoughts on chainsets?

if i were to by a bob Jackson i would build it up with all English parts...
now where did i put the daily mail?

what makes a good frame?

decent tubing

the right geometry

the right kind of handling and ride for the style of riding you want to do on it

a paint finish that won't chip or rub off too easily

a manufacturer with an after-care set up which will sort you out in case of breakage or when you want to restore it.

thoughtful touches and intelligently chosen details (like seat post size and clamp, drop out length, faced head tube and BB shell)

I also reccommend Will. Very very helpful and keeps you updated if there is a delay with your
order etc.

I've got black Phil Wood hubs on black Araya rims I bought from Jos.

Frames are as much a matter of personal taste as quality, although obviously lightness, flexibility etc. are important. The detail is attractive to me; like outlined lugs, and things like the relief of the Colnago club logo. Probably one of the reasons why Hetchins are so sought after.

most frames are hand made, the question is are they made by some one who is paid for their skills and takes pride in their work, or where they made by some one paid peice rate with less equipment further away.

personally i think a frame made with han ground tubes (on a grinder not a lathe) will give a better ride. you can get the tubes to fit much tighter, and have more control over then when working them.

my bob jackson is 631 tubing, it's thin and flexible, as dale will attest. it's incredibly light and the pliability of the steel makes for an amazingly comfy ride.

i also have a peugeot in 531 pro steel; it's lovely, but not as good. the path frame is heavier, and nice.

having ridden all three of my fixed bikes this week the Bob Jackson is far and above the best and most comfortable, and quickest of the three. it's absolutely amazing.

Ed, I've got a BJ in whitechapel. May be a bit big for you but you're welcome to give it a spin around the block if you want.

hi fruitbat, i was eyeing your bob up the other night at east beers, but was waaaay to big, but thanks for the offer!

i've got to say - my (whisper it) condor custom 631 lugged frame is bloody luvverly. I've also got a couple of 531 conversions which ride nice, but whenever i get back on the condor, i remember why i splurged!

ps - will at hubjub is a top bloke!

Ed, you can have a go on mine at polo or Eastie beers - I'm the same size as you, so it should fit fine.

I love my bike, it's super comfortable. You might want to consider getting a custom one then you can get the fit bang on and you could specify a more track orientated geometry if you wanted.

Adoubletap, I just got exactly the same wheels as you - cxp 30's on Phils. Thought I was being a bit unusual - please tell me your Bob is not light blue... :p

EDIT - having just actually read your thread properly, I can breathe easier. I've got the 30's, not 33's.

Is there anyway of looking at a frame and knowing what kind of steel tubing its made from? mine has lost all its stickers and i was just wondering how good or bad it maybe?

Mine's black enamel at the moment but as the repair requires a total respray I might go crazy and get metallic black.

right thats 1/3rd of the project decided then,

bob jackson frames - go with standard or should i try to get them to build me with the oversize tubing they usually reserve for bigger ones, just as i want something a bit stiffer and have heard that they can be a bit wobbly around the BBs

anyone got any thoughts on chainsets?

You could go for 853 tubing to add a bit of stiffness.

Is there anyway of looking at a frame and knowing what kind of steel tubing its made from? mine has lost all its stickers and i was just wondering how good or bad it maybe?
you can tap along the top tube and if it goes from a tinny sound in the middle, to a duller sound towards the ends, its double butted ;) . if it's an english frame 9/10 it's reynolds tubing