Steelwool Sweet City Limited

Never seen these before, I think they're pretty smart

http://steelwoolbicycles.ca/bikes/sweetcitylimited.php

The 2008 fixed frame does look nice, but you'd think it would be easier to build it with track ends.

Hi there,

I'm a sales rep for Steelwool Bicycles, and thought I might be able to explain the choice of the EBB (Eccentric Bottom Bracket) a bit better.

Soweto - you are absolutely right - it would have been a lot easier and cheaper to produce the same frame with horizontal dropouts / trackends. The EBB was not chosen because it was cheaper, or simpler to produce.

However, for the intended use of the frame, the EBB is simpler in actual use than horizontals. The Steelwool Tweed and the Sweet City limited are very much designed as functional city bikes. The EBB adds only a few grams to the frame weight, but makes the frame a lot simpler to use. How is it simpler? Flat tire? The wheel drops straight down, and out of the frame. No interference problems with fenders or brakes. And when you put it back in, the chain tension is identical. The wheel always goes in straight. No more worrying about chain tensioners. Quick release friendly. And properly set up, you should experience no slipping from the EBB. And you can adjust it with a little allen/hex key instead of carrying a big wrench with you.

I've been riding a Sweet City all winter in a brutal Canadian winter--tons of snow, filth and salt. I'm a heavy (220lbs) fixed gear rider. The EBB never slipped. I only adjusted it once to accommodate for chain wear. No creaking sounds whatsoever. No real maintenance. Just make sure you've got a load of grease or anti-seize on it when you put it in and don't worry about it. Maybe once a year pull it out, clean and re-grease it, and reinsert it. No worries.

With all of this, keep in mind Steelwool had no intention to design a true track frame. The bikes are meant as functional city bike for real world use. Big (huge) tire clearance, fender mounts, brake mounts. Normal road geometry. Dedicated to fixed or SS.

Anyways, let me know if you have any questions. ANDREW at STEELWOOLBICYCLES dot CA

it's nice to have some one from a company we're talking about not threatening to sue!

Well, Andrew, your reply was a whole lot less throwaway than my initial post. :-) Thanks for the explanation and the sturdy defence of the eccentric bottom bracket.

One question does come to mind, though. Would some gear combinations cause problems and leave you struggling to get the chain tight? I only say this because - judging from the diagram on the Steelwool website - the maximum amount of adjustment in the BB, the movement from one side of the shell to the other, doesn't seem comparable to the range of adjustment in a track end or horizontal dropout.

I've been thinking about this for the last twenty minutes, and I still can't get my head around it. Apologies if I've missed something.

EBB's do work fine. They're pretty popular on single-speed mountain bikes and do offer enough range of movement for tensioning.

The complaints against them are creaking/squeaking which can happen if it's not greased enough and set securely.

And also moving the BB actually changes the fit of the bike. But that is reasonably null and void for a city/commuter bike as they're unlikely to have had a pro-fitting and likely as not wouldn't notice the change. And mountain bikers are content because they're not in the saddle so much that even a pro-fit would be affected greatly through their use by the inch movement of the BB.

EBB's do work well. They needn't be heavy either (think about it, large block of metal around your BB and a larger BB shell), a really nice one that doesn't add much weight to the frame is the Bushnell EBB.

EBB's are also extremely common in tandems for tensioning the front chain section.

Glad you don't mind me coming along to post.

The EBB actually has quite a bit of throw - just over an inch. The shell itself is 55mm wide, internally. This years EBB insert is slightly more eccentric than last year. The result is that you should be able to get any gear combination to work without any real difficulty. In real world use, 99% of the time you'll be able to get it going easily. I did a build with a fairly worn chain, and I found I needed to use a half link, but I think if I had used a new chain, this would not have been an issue. But it's a transferred winter build, so I didn't want to sink new parts into it. Come spring, I'll be setting it up without the half link, and a new chain.

As far fit goes, Velocity Boy is absolutely right that your fit will change a bit as you move the EBB. However, in real world use this will rarely be a problem. Most urban riders have one or two gear combinations they might use, and even then switch fairly irregularly. For myself, once I've found a gear I like for a particular city, I rarely change it unless I move to a different city. But if you do make drastic changes to the EBB position, it is true that you will have to adjust position.

However, on the flipside, careful positioning of the EBB lets you customize your geometry a little. You can effectively shorten or lengthen the chainstays while slakening/steepening the seat tube, offering a more aggressive or relaxed feel. You can also choose to place the BB high or low, changing pedal clearance and the centre of gravity on the bike.

Basically, for some people, the EBB will be absolutely awesome. I'd go so far as to say most people. However, if you are someone who likes to change gearing a lot, you may find it less than ideal.

As far as the weight concerns go, the 2007 EBB is 110 grams. The shell is a bit larger, but the chainstays, seattube, and downtube are all very slightly shorter, so it probably comes out pretty close to even in that regard. 110 grams more weight is negligible for the majority of the target market for Steelwool.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. I'll do my best to keep the company lawyers in check.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. I'll do my best to keep the company lawyers in check.

This generally happens when someone on here has a bad experience about a company or sees a company treating it's customers badly. It gets written about on here, and showing extreme lack of foresight and understanding of internet forums the companies involved have tended to send a flurry of threats and warning messages to whoever posted anything half negative and myself for running the website, and we generally sit back and chuckle whilst they get more and more wound up and dig themselves bigger holes that will end up damaging their business even more.

So I very much doubt that this will happen with you guys. Though I've no doubt it will happen again at some point in time with some company or other.

I might have ignored one flaw though if it's even possible to get one in the UK

Getting one outside of Canada might be difficult. But at least you've got a company man to help you make it happen if you really want it. Shipping will be a hit though, as will import duty.

Yeah probably in nice but a bit unrealistic pile

Well, I wouldn't rule out international shipping. We've shipped frames to Chile, Australia, and all over North America so far. If you want to get a quote for shipping, contact Will and Thom (the company owners) directly at INFO at STEELWOOLBICYCLES dot CA or call them at 1-613-288-0155. They sell direct through their bike shop (Tall Tree Cycles), and will get you the best shipping price they can.

As far as our relationship with the forums goes, I think we'll be okay. We're all pretty young (I'm the youngest at 25) and we're all veterans of internet forum stupidity. I think we'll be able to cope with whatever might come up. Hopefully without involving lawyers. Of course, we'd much rather any dissatisfied customers let us know personally before they air out the proverbial dirty laundry. In my experience, a lot of the situations spiral out of control when people complain about a company without giving the company a chance to reasonably address any problems. But hey, when did the internet have anything to do with reason?

At the end of the day, we're just a bunch of bike nuts who want to put out a quality product, and we want all of our customers to be happy with our products. So let us know what you need us to do to make you happy. We love feedback.

Thanks to SSSasky and VB for the bottom bracket info.

Import duty on bikes coming into the UK is obscene. It would add at least an extra 120 quid onto the price of a Steelwool Sweet City frame. It may even be more than that because I think you have to pay duty and VAT as a percentage of the total value of the item AND the shipping cost.

This generally happens when someone on here has a bad experience about a company or sees a company treating it's customers badly. It gets written about on here, and showing extreme lack of foresight and understanding of internet forums the companies involved have tended to send a flurry of threats and warning messages to whoever posted anything half negative and myself for running the website, and we generally sit back and chuckle whilst they get more and more wound up and dig themselves bigger holes that will end up damaging their business even more.

So I very much doubt that this will happen with you guys. Though I've no doubt it will happen again at some point in time with some company or other.

this made me smile.

welcome to the forum SSSasky, please don't sue me. i'm sure your bikes are better then a fat man in an XL skin suit any way (the line the trigged the last lawsuit, for new people)

its (almost) all love.

I've got a bottle of hateraid handy (double post)

Thanks to SSSasky and VB for the bottom bracket info.

Import duty on bikes coming into the UK is obscene. It would add at least an extra 120 quid onto the price of a Steelwool Sweet City frame. It may even be more than that because I think you have to pay duty and VAT as a percentage of the total value of the item AND the shipping cost.

duty on the cost of the bike and VAT on cost of bike + shipping + handling fee which are usually £8 through Parcel Force. I had a steel MTB frame posted from the states (USPS, 10 day service) and the shipping cost was $55USD so hardly the earth.

my best guess would be:

frame $680CAD = £340
Post $70CAD = £35
Duty IIRC is 15% so £51
handling fee £8
giving a total of £434
+VAT at 17.5% =£76
Total =£510

I think as a (the?) resident(ish) Canadian on this forum (and by extension, in London), I should get one of these bikes sent to me for free. It can be written of as advertising or R&D or something. I was also born in Saskatchewan, which is a province SSSasky may also be related to in some way?

So give me my free bike!

The bikes look nice.

But ... I'm inclined to agree with Soweto888. If you want Muddies on there:

We'll look into it Horatio. And by look into it, I mean ... umm ... well I read it. That's a lot like looking into. AT = INTO. I tried.

Yeah, I spent 17 years in Saskatoon. Still think of it as the closest I have to a home town. Where were you in Sask?

Chris: Hateraid is my drink of choice for polo. Really gets the team spirit flowing.

my current favorite hateraide is Flat Tire by Left Hand Brewery, but I had a nice dark and maple Tommy Knocker the other day that might replace it

(thats right even my hateraide is pretentious.)

my college has some massive link to the Saskatchewan region, though I'm not really sure why.

my college has some massive link to the Saskatchewan region, though I'm not really sure why.

Depending on what college it is, maybe they own it.

SSSasky - Born in Eatonia, but grew up in Toronto and have spent the last bunch-o-years in Montreal. I had actually never met anyone from Saskatchewan until I moved to Montreal. That city could be renamed little-Saskatoon. And they all know each other. I would be shocked if we didn't have a common friend.

Yeah, I met more than a couple people from Saskatoon in my time in Montreal. And now my parents live in the T-dot. Us prairie folk get around. Apparently to all the same places.

Somehow I don't think the Montrealers would appreciate having their city renamed little-Saskatoon.

Ooh, that's a nice looking bike.

What are the specs/prices on those track hubs.. I like the styling of them. Are they your own design, or rebadged?