Campag bottom bracket torture

I've got an adjustable Campag bottom bracket. Something's not quite right, hence this post. :-(

This all started last week when my ears detected an unhealthy ticking sound from between my spinning feet. Further investigations revealed that the bottom bracket was well on its way to becoming clockwork. So, I took the thing apart, cleaned it all out and replaced the bearings - just like Uncle Sheldon said I should. There didn't seem to be any pitting and the whole assembly was running smoothly when I'd finished with it. However, the point of optimal adjustment did seem to be infinitesimally small. I couldn't quite get rid of all the play without losing the smooth revolutions.

Anyway, everything seemed OK till tonight. On the way home, play in the spindle seemed to increase tenfold, resulting in wobbly cranks. Ick. My best guess at a diagnosis was that I hadn't tightened up the lockring properly. So I took the thing apart and started again. This time I set the adjustable cup that wee tiny bit tighter and I did my damnedest to ensure that the lockring was secure. Now, I've not even ridden the thing yet, preferring to spin the cranks with the bike upside down, but the amount of play in the spindle is ever increasing again.

It may well be that I just need to have another go at this myself. Perhaps I'll get there with practice. But if anyone can provide some food for thought in the meantime, I'd really like to hear it.

use threadlock.

Is it an Italian thread? If so, firstly check the drive side cup to see if it's worked loose.

As for the smoothness issue, I know it sounds daft, but are the bearing races in the correct way round? The side showing the face edge should be facing outwards meaning the side with the prominent bearings are on the inside!

I got my road frame second hand 4 or so years back, the bottom bracket was in an awful state and I couldn't work out why until I realised the bearings were installed the wrong way round. It was the same story for the headset!!

Sam As for the smoothness issue, I know it sounds daft, but are the bearing races in the correct way round?

Do you mean the bearing cages - not the bearing races ?

To avoid this issue simply remove the bearing cages completely (obviously this only works on a loose ball bearing BB) - not only does this make your bike weigh less (weight weenies take note !! :D) but your BB will run that tiny bit smoother/freer.

The cages main role is aiding the construction of the BB, beyond this they have no functional role.

edmundane use threadlock.

Yep ! - Threadlock is good - probably no stronger than B243 should do it.

I usually wrap a few layers of P.T.F.E Teflon tape (plumbers tape) around the threads on the cups - then grease the threads in the bottom bracket shell - I never get loose cups using this combination.

Replace with a new one (with sealed bearings)

Would agree with Roberto - one of cycling's best advances in the last 20 years was the cartridge BB. Shimano UN71/72/73's are legendary but a brand new genuine Campag cartridge BB can be bought for little more than £10. I would spend a little more though on a higher spec model (Chorus/Centaur) - or buy a SH one on eBay.

The other thing is to look very closely at your bearing tracks - like headsets they can become overtightened and you end up with tiny depressions in the surface. Known as 'indexing' - makes the bearings all notchy as the balls run in and out of the depression. Throw it away in that case - new balls will not help.

tynan Do you mean the bearing cages - not the bearing races ?

To avoid this issue simply remove the bearing cages completely (obviously this only works on a loose ball bearing BB) - not only does this make your bike weigh less (weight weenies take note !! :D) but your BB will run that tiny bit smoother/freer.

The cages main role is aiding the construction of the BB, beyond this they have no functional role.

Durr, yes!

Thanks for the replies, everybody. I've not been ignoring you, honestly. Some of us have to work on Sundays. Waah!

The threading is 1.370" x 24 tpi, which is British, yes? If I've got that right, I can't really see how the fixed cup can be working itself loose. The lockring on the adjustable side was uber tight when I'd finished with it last night. That being the case, how could the adjustable cup move either? I'll make sure the fixed cup is on properly when I try again.

So I just wrap this Threadlock stuff around the cups and screw them in as normal? It seems improbable that one tape-covered thread would mesh with another, but I gather that's what you're all saying, so I'll take it on trust. :-)

The bearing cages ARE definitely in the right way, although I admit that I had to think about that a lot before I decided on the correct orientation. Sheldon seems to be in favour of loose bearings. Alas, I don't always do what Sheldon says. Unfettered bearings just seemed like something else to add to my torment during assembly.

Finally, I did think about getting a sealed bottom bracket. Someone put me off by saying that the adjustable version was more in keeping with my bike, which I guess is true. It'd be so easy to go into a shop and buy a sealed Campag Chorus BB... I'll have one more go with this Italian antique before I throw in the towel. Thanks again.

Soweto888 So I just wrap this Threadlock stuff around the cups and screw them in as normal?

Threadlock is a liquid - loctite B243 being the most common one for bikes. It's that blue blob you see on the threads of shimano parts.

You don't need to use P.T.F.E tape and loctite, choose one or the other, both will stop your cups from moving.

Soweto888
It seems improbable that one tape-covered thread would mesh with another, but I gather that's what you're all saying, so I'll take it on trust. :-)

P.T.F.E Teflon tape is incredibly thin/pliable/flexible/malleable it won't stop large threads such as BB threads - it may gather up as you screw the thing in, but thats fine, it's job is to fill out the tiny space between the shell and the cups (if there was no space the cups would not go in).

It is so thin that you can easily layer two or three layers and still screw the cups in without resistance, which is good because two or three layers is what I would recommend.

Soweto888
The bearing cages ARE definitely in the right way, although I admit that I had to think about that a lot before I decided on the correct orientation. Sheldon seems to be in favour of loose bearings. Alas, I don't always do what Sheldon says. Unfettered bearings just seemed like something else to add to my torment during assembly.

Put some grease on the races, put some grease on the bearings, stick 'em where you want them, they won't move.

I agree about taking the cages out whatever else - I had a cage on a Duraace fail and fortunately spotted the problem quickly before it destroyed the bearing surfaces.

OK. Thanks again, folks, especially you, Tynan. Extra credit for illustrated explanations. :-)

I'll play with it on Tuesday when I'm off. Gears again tomorrow. sigh

One final note if you go down the plumbers tape (PTFE teflon) route.

When wrapping it a round the threads on the cups - stretch it really tight so that the threads show through - it should almost look like you have applied some white paint - basically don't loosely wrap it around the cups a few times.

teflon tape or threadlock is not needed; just normal copper grease or white grease. you just need to crank on the lockring. you can probably put a bit more pressure on the cups, than say a headset ie easy rotating. as when you put the cranks on you won't tell the difference (sealed BB are also harder to turn than a headset ;) ). i learnt this the hard way with 2 similar BB's.

tynan One final note if you go down the plumbers tape (PTFE teflon) route.

When wrapping it a round the threads on the cups - stretch it really tight so that the threads show through - it should almost look like you have applied some white paint - basically don't loosely wrap it around the cups a few times.

Also wrap it the which the threads go. (if that makes any sense).

Right, that sounds good. I understand you all, even if you can't seem to agree with each other. :-) I'm going head to head with this BB at high noon tomorrow.

Well, it seems that I was getting play because of my feeble attempts to tighten the lockring. I've got a lockring tool which sort of fits the Campag lockring. It's useable, but prone to slipping, so I ended up using needle-nosed pliers first time around. This was a mistake. Using the ill-fitting lockring tool has chipped my paintwork into oblivion, however, the ring is now so tight that I don't think I could shift it, even if I wanted to. No more play. Yay!

When I rebuilt the BB on Tuesday, I dispensed with the bearing cages. The difference is incredible. Before yesterday, when the chain was off and the bike was upside down on the floor, you could swing the cranks and they would barely turn one revolution before stopping. If you do the same now, they just spin and spin and spin and spin... So no more bearing cages for me. Sheldon's instructions for installing loose ball-bearings are easy to follow. To be honest, it's not even as awkward as you'd think. The grease in the cups stops the bearings from bouncing about. Just make sure you don't poke one down your seat stay. ;-)

booyah, i was right!!

[cite]Sheldon Brown[/cite]If your bottom bracket came with retainers holding fewer than 11 balls, I strongly recommend that you replace them with loose balls. This is not really difficult to do. if you know how.

Hmmm, this is his advice on loose ballbearings. So if you've got 11 (like I have) or more is he saying don't bother?

Sam, my interpretation of Sheldon's bottom bracket advice is this: if you've got a clip or cage that holds less than 11 ball-bearings, then you should DEFINITELY remove it and go with the loose bearings. Reading between the lines, I decided that Sheldon really doesn't like ball-bearing cages at all. :-) So, even though my clip also held 11 bearings, just like yours, I decided that I'd experiment with the loose balls. Like I say, the difference between caged bearings and uncaged bearings is extraordinary. Perhaps my cages were past their best - maybe they were faulty in some way. Whether they were or they weren't, the cranks are definitely spinning more freely because the cages are gone. I'm still dumbfounded by the difference.

Dogs, you solved my the last mechanical problem too. Can't remember what it was, though. Anyway, you're great. :-P

Thanks to everyone who replied. That was an education. These Mechanics and Fixin' threads are great.

woot! i've come across most of the problems first hand. :(

Glad you sorted it out Soweto888 - I love a happy ending.

:)

I heard that if you wanted to de-cage your bearings you should replace them with more than there were initially? Doesnt seem necessary engineering-ishly to me though.

Cheers, Soweto888. Had a clicking noise from my year old NOS Campy BB at the weekend, so had already decided to strip, clean and rebuild this weekend. I'll give it a try without the cages.

Removing cages allows more balls in as they can be more tightly spaced - if you can fit another ball in (of the same size obviously) still with some slight gaps then try it - the more the merrier (smoother and better loading).