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Random...
Strangely reminded me that my dad (Painter/decorator and occasional musician) wrote a book in the 80's about driving HGV's even though he never drove one.
Lots of illustrations about blind spots in there.http://www.amazon.ca/Jobs-Involving-Driving-Anthony-Priestland/dp/0850389399
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This is really good and useful! What a good chap.
However having looked at the sketches and read the accompanying bits, I'm still no clearer as to what the different depths of colour mean exactly (ok, so I am getting the obvious bits, that blue is the HGV, red=bad, light green in front=pretty good), but is there any chance of a key please so I can understand what the black area means?
I don't know if that confused anyone else. Probably not huh.
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From the original text:
"Most of this is fairly self-explanatory. Hopefully it's helpful. Sorry if it sounds like a lecture-I realise some will already know most of this.
The darker the shade of green the harder it is for the driver to see you-ASSUMING HE'S LOOKING IN THE CORRECT MIRROR to see you.
Red areas are completely blind to the driver.Note the blind areas directly in front and to the right of the cab. They are big enough to lose someone pushing a cycle flat against the truck."Also worth bearing in mind that the blind spots around the cab also apply to skip lorries, 7.5 tonne trucks, refuse trucks etc.
I was most shocked by the blind spot right where you would end up if you follow a cycle lane to a set of lights. -
d_c
I was most shocked by the blind spot right where you would end up if you follow a cycle lane to a set of lights.Indeed.
I never follow the lane unless I'm sure I can get into the ASL box.
When I get there I always pull infront of whatever vehicle is there.
It's unfortunate that whilst the author states
"We'd far rather you pulled up directly in front of us and we could see you."
it often seems to be a cue for a scrap.
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Of all the advice I've ever been given I think that "If you can't see the mirror, then the driver can't see you" is the best. Even when you stop ahead of them at lights/a junction/ wherever, some HGVs are so high off the ground that there is a small blind spot directly in front of the cab as well. (And when hitching a ride up Dog Kennel Hill by grabbing on to the back of a scaffolding truck be aware that the passenger may chuck an empty bag of crisps out the window which may well hit you straight in the face, momentarily making the whole world one big blind spot to you).
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Also remember the curvature on some of the mirrors can make you seem larger and sometimes smaller and hence harder to see.
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TheBrick(Tommy) Also remember the curvature on some of the mirrors can make you *seem larger and sometimes smalle*r and hence harder to see.
whoa tommy, you been at the good shit again…
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big daddy wayne [quote]TheBrick(Tommy) Also remember the curvature on some of the mirrors can make you *seem larger and sometimes smalle*r and hence harder to see.
whoa tommy, you been at the good shit again…[/quote]
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mikec I normally have one rule when approaching lorries. Stay as far away from them as possible and NEVER EVER overtake on the inside. If I am forced onto the inside of a lorry for whatever reason I am straight onto the pavement regardless.
That's pretty much the attitude I take, best thing for most people
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jonlubi Of all the advice I've ever been given I think that "If you can't see the mirror, then the driver can't see you" is the best.
This assumes that the driver will actually be looking for you. The guys that killed Seb, Emma Foa etc did not.
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which is the major problem isnt it?
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Rapsac LGV drivers are meant to trained to check their mirrors every 7 seconds.
When piratical to.
So really you need to be in clear view of a mirror for at least 10 sec to have a chance of being seen.
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Buffalo Bill [quote]jonlubi Of all the advice I've ever been given I think that "If you can't see the mirror, then the driver can't see you" is the best.
This assumes that the driver will actually be looking for you. The guys that killed Seb, Emma Foa etc did not.[/quote]
Too true. I like the sign by the lights at the roundabout south of waterloo bridge that says "THINK BIKE", there should be more of those. -
On my commute yesterday, going past Kew Bridge, I was bumbling along and came up behind a HGV. The driver indicated left, and as the light started flashing, an audiable alarm could be heard (similar to when a HGV is reversing).
*Beep warning, left-turning lorry Beep warning, left-turning lorry Beep warning.....*
It was very clear and would make any road user instantly aware that a potentially dangerous manoeuvre was occuring. I think the vehicle's company was Cementex, but i didn't get a good look. Can't find any info about the system or company the vehicle belonged to, but will keep looking.
provenrad
aidan
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JOL
vic
d_c
kowalski
Joe.S
eeehhhh
jonlubi
mikec
TheBrick(Tommy)
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Buffalo_Bill
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Dammit-
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About
HGV Blind Spots
Posted by
@Velocio
Thanks to Moving Target and Nozzer for posting this:
Buffalo Bill's Intro
A lorry-driver called Nozzer has taken the time to sketch and explain blind-spots from his point of view. He has done this to help cyclists understand how the various mirrors work. He assumes that the driver will understand how the mirrors work, will have correctly adjusted them and be using them. This assumption, as numerous court cases resulting from the deaths of London cyclists have shown, is not to be relied upon. You should therefore view these sketches to inform yourself as to the relative positions in which you definitely will not be seen, or if seen, very poorly, relative to the driver’s cab.
Nozzer's Info
Turning Left
Pic 1) and pic 2) Truck turning left/on a left hand bend.
Rear of the trailer will be moving closer to the kerb and further to the left than the cab.
The cab will be on the white line or even crossing into the other carriageway depending on how sharp the turn is and how wide the road is.
Driver is HIGHLY unlikely to be looking in his right hand mirror unless to check if the corner of the trailer is in the right hand lane-and all he'll see in it is the headboard of the trailer if he is.
Predominantly he'll be looking in the left mirror/ahead.
Straight Line
Pic 3) Truck going in a straight line.
This is also the same visiblity as a rigid or non-articulated vehicle. Assume the driver is using his mirrors only in the direction of travel in a rigid vehicle.
If the truck is stationary or it's safe to do so-(ie assuming no oncoming traffic there needs to be no bends in the road coming up and the truck isn't indicating) then this is the safest time to overtake.
DO NOT UNDERTAKE while it's moving-and if you MUST undertake then only do so if you KNOW the truck isn't going to move before you're past.
DO NOT pull up in the nearside red zone by the cab.The kerbside mirror shows very little. If the driver is going to miss you,unless you're directly behind the trailer this is where he'll miss you while the truck is stationary.
We'd far rather you pulled up directly in front of us and we could see you.
Turning Right
Pic 4) and pic 5) Truck turning right/on a right hand bend.
Rear of the trailer will be on the white line or even crossing into the other carriageway depending on how sharp the turn is and how wide the road is.
BEWARE the back end of the trailer-if this is a very sharp bend the rear of the trailer will be moving to the left as it pivots round the axles. This is a SERIOUS crush hazard and the driver CANNOT SEE IT at all and is unlikely to know the trailer has hit someone. I once ripped the front bumper and valence from a Discovery that tried to push through and I didn't feel it.
Driver will be splitting attention between right mirror(back of trailer),left mirror(Is the headboard going to intrude on the path?) and ahead.
Overall
If an articulated lorry isn't stopped in a straight line DON'T undertake. Your chances of being seen are slim if bent left and nil if bent right and you're likely to get crushed as either the cab or trailer will be coming very close to the kerb.
For the same reason don't cycle up behind one in the red zone at speed then pass-the driver may already have comitted to a manoevre because his mirrors look clear."
If you see an HGV stop and put his hazards on directly after a turning/side road make CERTAIN he can see you. He's likely to start reversing into the side road as soon as he thinks he's clear behind. Many HGV trailers DON'T have reversing lights so don't rely on seeing them and hearing a beeper coming from 45' away on the cab is a bit of a tall order.
The triangular red zone on the right of the cab that appears to be out in the middle of nowhere isn't actually a blind spot as such-but is an area that may well be obscured to the driver by the window pillar and isn't actually directly visible while driving. If the vehicle has a right-hand lower wide angle mirror then this won't be a blind spot.
BUT...
Be very aware that the wide angle mirrors are extremely difficult to see a cyclist in,given the amount of time we can dedicate to them whilst moving.That goes for both sides.We've still got to look in the direction we're travelling in.
And an aside-in defence of us...
We're more likely to be looking in our mirrors and to have seen you than the 50 car drivers you just passed.
Incidentally, I used to ride motorbikes through London regularly. I still ride regularly and have a fair idea of what to avoid. Even with more BHP/tonne than a Ferrari under me and being twice the size of a cyclist passing lorries is an unpleasant experience. I think you guys are f*cking crazy and as such should be thoroughly encouraged (take it as a compliment-it's meant as one).