Riding on pavement query

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  • not a rant:

    my phone rang in traffic. i rode off theolbald's rd onto the huge pavement outside the media building, nearly opposite CSM/ Cochrane theatre, rode about ten yards really slowly and stopped to answer it. i wasn't riding, but a Police Support Office came up to me and gave me a really hard time. i was all for the 'fuck off' approach until i realised he had a real policeman with him. anyway, it's all cool, he told me off, which was a bit heavy handed, i wasn't actually riding. i pointed this out.. he threatened me with a £100 fine, and this is the bit i find odd -* a criminal record*.

    out of interest, can you really get a criminal record from cycling on the pavement? because my line of work requires an enhanced criminal disclosure, which might be a bit annoying.

    (nb, the PSO was a total prick)

  • i would seriously doubt you'd get a record, as you don't get a criminal record for speeding fines in cars..

    i've been told not to ride on the pavement a couple of times, they've always been really nice about it though.

  • I suppose if you've been fined it would be kept on some kind of record, the only record that I'm aware of being a criminal one.

    That would have been totally stupid though if you had been fined. I'm surprised they even stopped you. You should have asked him if he would have preferred you to answer the phone whilst riding on the road or what he would have done...

  • Riding on the pavement sounds like a civil and not criminal offense to me, but I am not so sure - I usually use the crude division of:

    If you can be put in prison for it = criminal
    If you can be fined, banned, warned etc = civil

    Maybe someone a little more knowledgeable might chime in.

  • he could charge you with some stupid petty offence just to screw you over, in the us, if a cop dosent like you they add interferance with police athouirty to any non-crimial charge. usuly they say you interfeared b y refusing to anwser questions.

  • I'm not sure, but sounds like a jobsworth cunt to me, so was probably trying to scare.
    If more enforcement officers/courts of law etc. would realise that certain rules should be there not as a black and white divide, but as a starting/fallback point for when a more utilitarian approach fails then the world would be a better place.
    BTW I'm not talking about justifiable homicide.

  • i had a pso tell me to get 'off my bloody bike' a tad agressively because i took my bike on the pavement, he was a bit previous as i was on the pavement to lock my bike to a stand.

    felt a bit miffed at his aggressive approach to policing so once i'd changed into me civvies went back outside and asked him why he felt the need to take the approach he did. He continued being shirty so just walked around him taking photos of his badge numbers with my digital camera -

    they really, really dislike that...

  • just ask them either of these questions

    "how long are you going to detain me?"
    "am i free to go?"

    unless they are going to arrest you there's no point standing there arguing the toss.

  • MrSmith just ask them either of these questions

    "how long are you going to detain me?"
    "am i free to go?"

    Excellent ! ++

  • Sounds excessive to me, but in theory possible. Technically, riding on the pavement is a criminal offence. But I really doubt you'd get a record unless you were endangering the life and limb of others.

    Basic fine is £30 for riding on the pavement - though police are instructed to use their discretion, and if you're not actually moving (as in, you're not cycling), then straddling your bike on the pavement is moot. You're allowed to walk your bike on the pavement, after all.

    If you were endangering other people you could get nicked and get a record. That'd be the same on the pavement or on the road, though of course it's more likely that you're a danger on the pavement. It's a different law that applies.

    FWIW - Criminal means anything a policeman can nick you for. Civil means anything someone would have to sue you for.

    see here for more
    http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php

    And in generally - I find the best option is to apologise and make humble. They tend to let you off with a sharp word or two and bugger off to do something more useful. Getting antagonistic makes things escalate.

  • h2o FWIW - Criminal means anything a policeman can nick you for. Civil means anything someone would have to sue you for.

    Thanks for that, I will update the bit of my brain that stores legal affairs ! :)

    Additionally (correct me if I am wrong) a criminal conviction can lead to custodial sentence - a civil offense cannot (of course you could commit a criminal offence by ignoring a court order as a result of a civil offence)

    Also you (as a member of the public) can only detain and place under citizens arrest someone who you believe has committed a criminal offence - you cannot detain and place under citizens arrest someone you believe has commited a civil offence. - So if someone has knocked you off your bike, leaves you on the floor and leaves the scene of the accident they are fair game, someone using your parking space is not.

  • just say you fuckers ran me over 4 months ago, the law is an ass and i'm still waiting for the compensation cheque! worked for me last time, but that is a true story

  • "And in generally - I find the best option is to apologise and make humble. They tend to let you off with a sharp word or two and bugger off to do something more useful. Getting antagonistic makes things escalate."

    i generally agree with this bit.

    it annoys me when the guy is clearly being a dick though. unusually, i gave him the care bear stare, but he didn't back down. so i did. hmmm. i remember thinking as i rode away that i wish i'd got his badge number, simply because i know it unsettles them. it's like asking someone on the phone for their name and a call reference.

    disgusted, of bow.

  • MrSmith just ask them either of these questions

    "how long are you going to detain me?"
    "am i free to go?"

    unless they are going to arrest you there's no point standing there arguing the toss.

    Hahaha, I'll remember that :)

  • I was stopped in a different city by a rent-a-cop and a proper cop one time for riding on the pavement, having no brakes, and having no lights. They whipped out their book and were in the process of issuing me the said £100 fine.

    Not to sound like an idiot but i told them to 'suck a big dick' and then legged it, riding off into the sunset.

    True story. I felt like a real man.

  • CHUG_IT I was stopped in a different city by a rent-a-cop and a proper cop one time for riding on the pavement, having no brakes, and having no lights. They whipped out their book and were in the process of issuing me the said £100 fine.

    Not to sound like an idiot but i told them to 'suck a big dick' and then legged it, riding off into the sunset.

    True story. I felt like a real man.
    great advice, i'll remember next time i get pulled over by 2 pigs on motorbikes for skipping 3 success lights on oxford st.

  • I work advising people with criminal records what to do when they're having CRB checks so I should know about this stuff

    basically, there is no formal definition of a criminal record but it is generally understood to be a finding of guilt in court. i.e. you have to go to court to get a record. So if you get a fine on the street this is not a criminal record. If you thought f*ck that I aint paying the fine.... take it to court, and lose, you would be given a punishment (prob bigger fine) and then you would have a criminal record :-(

    ive been pulled at lights a cpl of times and found that the 'terribly sorry' approach avoids fines, even though inside I wish they'd piss off and do some proper policing...

    btw PJ - If you had got a fine the chances of it appearing on an enhanced CRB are almost zilch!

  • h2o Sounds excessive to me, but in theory possible. Technically, riding on the pavement is a criminal offence. But I really doubt you'd get a record unless you were endangering the life and limb of others.

    Basic fine is £30 for riding on the pavement - though police are instructed to use their discretion, and if you're not actually moving (as in, you're not cycling), then straddling your bike on the pavement is moot. You're allowed to walk your bike on the pavement, after all.

    If you were endangering other people you could get nicked and get a record. That'd be the same on the pavement or on the road, though of course it's more likely that you're a danger on the pavement. It's a different law that applies.

    FWIW - Criminal means anything a policeman can nick you for. Civil means anything someone would have to sue you for.

    see here for more
    http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php

    And in generally - I find the best option is to apologise and make humble. They tend to let you off with a sharp word or two and bugger off to do something more useful. Getting antagonistic makes things escalate.

    Exactly the link I was going to post.

    Coppers don't like cyclist, we are a nice easy target compared to some mouthy chav kid who will try and sue for anything.

  • now the real question is why is it that every single time i get on the pavement for 10 meters at about 2mph to get to my door, there's a cop waiting there to yell at me and threaten me, but the local yokels on holloway road can ride in groups of up to 8 at about 15mph for as long as they want, and i've not once seen them even get harrassed for it. and they are actually posing a danger. anyone?

  • You look like an easier target?
    If you were a cop, would you get yourself in the middle of a bunch of yoofs to tell them off about something piddling?
    I wouldn't.. I'd call the van in for that and then it's a baton party! :)

  • it's true though. i look weak, and probably quite sort of a middleclassenger, so i am an easy target. he was taken aback when i chose not to acknowledge his presence, but i did the conciliatory thing in the end.

  • pj it's true though. i look weak, and probably quite sort of a middleclassenger, so i am an easy target. he was taken aback when i chose not to acknowledge his presence, but i did the conciliatory thing in the end.
    grow a beard or moustache ;)

  • middleclassenge

  • Pavements are for peds....

  • yeah whatever, thanks for the constructive advice, read the OP, etc, then go back to the commuting section of c+.

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Riding on pavement query

Posted by Avatar for pj_(pj) @pj_(pj)

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