Chain line

FINALLY sorted my rear hub out yesterday, Phil Wood sent me a longer end cap for my vintage (darling!) rear hub, neither LBS or Condor could get the old one out (pussies!)... My handy flatmate got it off in less than 30 seconds with a 19mm spanner, a pickle fork and a big hammer with two little taps (VW nut, he's VERY handy)...

ANYWAY... We stuck the hub in the track ends, wacked my crank in and the chain line was WAY OUT!! I'm now scared...

Frame is an IRO Jamie Roy, cranks are Sugino 75s and the BB is a cheap Formula jobbie... I've read on t'web today that this isn't uncommon with cheap BBs... I didn't screw my freewheel (sorry fixie-nazis) all the way in, cuz the wheel isn't built yet, but even if I had the chain ring was sitting at least 10mm out and there's still feckloads of BB bolt showing...

Answer? Splash out on a Sugino 75 BB?

Reckon I've got about 6-7mm clearance before the crank'll hit the chainstay, so I'm gonna be about 3-4mm out by my (admittedly, uber newb) reckonin'...

Thoughts? I'll take some pix and post at some point, it's buggin' me... This bike's takin' an eternity to come together...

Gimme some bike mech love...

alot of people have said that splashing out on high end products is going to be best in the long run....and if it sorts out your chain line issue at the same time then its all good:)

Check the BB spindle length.

75 uses a 109mm ISO taper for a 42mm chainline, but I think the Phil hub uses a different (44?) chainline. So the Sugino 75 BB still may not give correct chainline.

Bike's built but STILL can't get the chainline sorted out... IRO Jamie Roy, 130mm rear dropout, old Phil Wood SS hub, Sugino 75 cranks, IRO BB...
Took it down to Brixton Cycles and they've advised me to get an old Specialised gizmo that'll give me more thread on the drive side of the hub and thus cure the chainline issue... It screws onto the hub's thread and extends your thread out towards the dropout... None of the guys at the store could remember what it was called, it was apparently quite popular before cassette freewheels came in as you could chop and change about on the same hub i.e. stick a five speed on, a single sprocket/freewheel...
Ring any bells with anyone? This is doin' my feckin' head in... :-/

Which exact Phil wood hub are you using? I think posting pictures would help.

I'm a little confused and just want to check whats up - Your freewheel is too inboard compared to your cranks right?

You do know that Sugino 75s are officially spec'd with ISO tapers where as the cheap-o IRO BB is going to be JIS (almost guaranteed). As Sheldon Brown says "If you install an ISO crank on a J.I.S. spindle, it will sit about 4.5 mm farther out than it would on an ISO spindle of the same length.". However if those cranks have been already installed on the BB then I wouldn't try and switch to an ISO BB now.

BTW this chart is brilliant for Chainline issues: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html

Opinions I have so far received on the issue of a cart BB for the 75.

CONdor (Keith): Miche. Not sure of the taper, but it is adjustable.
CONdor (Adri): UN53 110mm JIS.
Mosquito: Sugino RD 103mm JIS.
Will (Hubjub): UN53 107mm JIS or Phil Wood 108mm JIS (adjustable).
Royce: send in the cranks and they'll spec the BB to suit.
Terry Dolan : Campagnolo Mirage/Centaur/Pista 111mm ISO.

ALL: just get the 75 cup 'n cone.

So there you have it.

No fecker has the definitive answer.

I have built up the 75 onto the Campag BB, but not ridden it (regular readers will know of the Dolan saga...).

It looked right. Chainring clearance looked ok, a quick check with a straight edge before I took it all apart showed it all to be lined up correctly.

Whether or not it would have wotked when I tried to ride it is something I can't comment on.

I'm still undecided what to do when I build the new bike, but the Campag option is the front runner.

Most likely I'll buy the cheapest Campag (less than a tenner) and see if it fits. If it does I'll swap it out for a better one. If not I'll go with the 107 UN53. If it still doesn't work I'll have to consider shelling out on the Phil.

Or I'll just go down the pub.

I am definitely no expert, in fact a mechanical disaster, but I've got a Phil hub and Sugino 75s, and ended up getting the 108mm JIS Phil BB. The spindle is slightly too long (cranks sit too far out with the BB centred) but is adjustable as you say. Adjusting it isn't that easy since you have to put the crank on to measure the chainline, take it off to adjust the BB, put it back on to check etc etc. I am sure there must be a better way but got the chainline right in the end.

The cranks don't sit perfectly on the BB though, I guess becase as pip says the cranks are an ISO taper and the BB is JIS?

Thanks for all the tips but I've decided to bin the old Phil hub and get a new Phil flip/flop, the chainline is out by about an INCH!!! Apart from sticking a 5 speed freewheel on there and taking out the sprockets there isn't really any other solution... It turns out the Specialised track converter was designed for three spoke wheels and has a completely different thread so that won't work either... Might've been fine if I'd gone for a frame with narrower dropouts, 130mm seems stupidly wide for a track (ish) bike... Anyway, just waiting for the Phil now... Bah!

The hub's a late 70s/early 80s 126mm road hub with a thread for a 5 speed on it... I already changed the width to 130mm by swapping the end cap over, probably would've been better off sending it back to Phil and getting them to lengthen the axle on the non-drive side and shortening the drive side end cap... Guess hindsight is 20/20... You live and learn... Etc. etc. :-S