Funny frame... help me build this thing!

hi fellas, just wondering if any of you can lend me yer eyes.

bought a frame on the bay to build as a fix winter hack / polo bike, will transplant the components i have on my track frame onto this one once i got mo' money to upgrade the track bike.

it's a kuwahara from osaka japan, very skinny seatstays :) with ishiwata magny tubing. did a quick search, it's maganese molydenum alloy, so should be similar to reynolds 531. paintwork in VGC, a few pics below:

problem is there seems to be almost too much clearance between the frame and the wheels. fitting a pair of 700x23 wheels + tyres onto the frame, the only brakes that can reach the rim is a tektro with pads set all the way to 57mm.

does that look normal to you? or was this frame meant for even bigger wheels? i personally don't know of any standard wheels bigger than 700c other than those on a pennyfarthing or on a boneshaker... should i try and get another pair of forks (chrome would look good... hmm)

also, anyone had any experience with enlarging the hole (nut fit) at the back of the fork so that it can take allen key fit brakes? and any idea how i can tell what type of bb it takes (thread, etc...)?

and don't worry i'm not going to use that zoom MTB stem on this...

thanks guys!

i have to say that 700c lok small on that frame but you may be able to fix the problem by searching for long reach brakes, other than that i know as much as you...sorry

just take a larger sized drill to the existing hole, it works fine..

Coulda been built for 27" (630) wheels - bigger than 700c.

yep, that's almost certainly a bike for 27" wheels.

as for the BB, try an old one in there to see if it fits, it's likely to be ISO.

I'd second the motion that it was built for 27" wheels and fenders, hence the massive clearance. Plenty of very long reach caliper brakes out there now, if you find the Tektro isn't quite cutting it.

The brake hole can easily be modified to allow for recessed bolts. Ask around at your LBSs etc. Just really need a drill bit of the right size. You may find though that its just easier to use a nutted brake depending on your situation.

[EDIT: I talked some rubbish about JIS vs ISO here originally.. Taper is immaterial of course. BB threading will be English. So just get an english threaded BB that matches your crank. Guessing it also has a standard 68mm shell, which you can easily measure].

very long wheelbase for playing polo on!

My ride has the opposite problems.

Buy a carbon fork, to add some bling. If you get a racing one for a 700c wheel and no fender clearences, it should give your top tube a slight forwards, TT style, slant. It will also sharpen up the handling, reduce the wheelbase and fix your brake problem.

yoiks thats about a -1mm clearance just ride it till the tyre wears down a bit goes flat at the top

What size tyres are they Tommo? Tried: 23.. 21.. 19mm?

I think you should put on a pair of 650c wheels, riser/flat bars and oury grips - it'll look weird
but, like, totally sick!

You'll have to go brakeless though.

Or - perhaps even sicker - a fork for 650c front wheel and get the intended 27" on the back!
Do it!

i have the same frame!

I had some cheapo long reach brakes from condor, swapped em for some tektros a while back and they work fine. most people i spoke to advised against enlarging the hole because if you don't have a proper drill, you can put cracks in the fork crown.

bb - english thread, normal size. i've got a miche 107 in there at the moment, chainline's dead on - though you have to squeeze the seatstays in a tiny bit (they're 126). it's not a problem but putting the rear wheel on and getting the tension right is more fiddly than it would be on a track frame.

i've been looking for a decent 27" wheels though, I don't like having the big gap between the fork crown and the wheels... though there's supposed to be a bit of clearance for mudguards.

Regarding my lack of clearence, there 23mm tyres. I don't really want to go less then that for London roads. In the above photo, there is no clearence, the wheel won't actually go around. To actually make the bike rideable I have to apply the exceptionaly dodgy and dangerous "Ol' bit of papper" trick.
As shown below:

Bolt the hub in bloody tight, then pull out the papper. I don't recomend anyone doing this. The consequences of the hub slidding up the dropouts would be horrendous.

Tommo..

you are fscking mental! One curb hop or bunny hop or pot-hole and you're superman!
Seriously dude, get a 21mm tyre or better clearance forks or something!

Tommo: Have you tried different tyres? Some have lower profiles etc. Not that I have any to recommend, so as normal this is half arsed advice.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Tufo-Tufo-S22-Pro-Road-700c-x-21mm-Training-Tubular-tyre--Red-Black-10701.htm

Just remember even though it's 21mm it's not necessarily lower profile than a 23mm. Usually it will be but not all, ie. some trial and error may be needed.

Well curbs and bunny-hops aren't an issue. Pot-holes are. Its not as bad as it looks though, I have had it drop while riding once, it can't drop that much and it tends to just slow you to a halt, leaving tyre dust all over the fork crown.
After all, I'm only spacing it off the ends by the thickness of three sheets of paper, less then 0.5mm. I wouldn't recomend doing this in a situation where the hub slipping could cause the wheel to lock.

conti 4000 20mm - low.

That looks a bit tight; also something could stick to the tyre then jam it against the fork, seen this happen with front mudguards, front wheel stops dead.

This may be a stupid suggestion, but could you use chaintugs on the front dropouts?

thanks guys for the input...

now i remember my mate's bought a bike with a japanese frame that takes 27" wheels + fenders from brick lane bikes.
makes sense now.

the tektros will just manage i think... but that mean's i'll have to drill it. and what a shame i dont think this will be suitable as a polo bike. will see if i can find a pair of forks for cheap. i do like tommo's suggestion. or this might end up being a comfy soft fix ride with 700x28 tyres?

wow, h2o, mind showing me a picture of your bike? would like to have a look how you set it up. can't believe someone's actually got the same frame on here! i might annoy you further until i finish building this thing up... and from the look of it it'll be a while! for now, thanks a lot for telling me about the b.b. much appreciated!

haha lois, i have a pair of 26" mtb wheels i might try it on just for the fun... just the front wheel though, rear one's OLN's too big.

is that your harry hall tommo? or you have another frame (lucky you)? yeah sersiously, try smaller tyres... i think dhcyclesport on ebay do quite a few sizes... i remember seeing 20mm rubinos.

Edmundane, yeah thats the Harry Hall, I'm hoping to get new forks soon, but will look for smaller tyres in the mean time. Anyone know where i might get a carbon fork, 1inch threaded steerer? I need at least a 230mm steerer.

edmundane thanks guys for the input...
wow, h2o, mind showing me a picture of your bike? would like to have a look how you set it up. can't believe someone's actually got the same frame on here! i might annoy you further until i finish building this thing up... and from the look of it it'll be a while! for now, thanks a lot for telling me about the b.b. much appreciated!

annoy away! i'll post some pics over the weekend.

the tektros I have came with a nut at the back rather than a recessed bolt - got them from brick lane bikes.

It's a bit too small for me but hey ho, it rides well enough. One day I'll get my Mercian...

thanks h2o, that's a nice one. exact same twin! it looks good when built up actually... i guess having mudguards help to make the proportions better.

i got a brake already, and won a headset on ebay just now. need to get a stem, saw down the handle bars, wrap them up, get a chainset and it's ready to roll. still quite a long way actually...

if your planing on having a fixed then just change the fork that would take a normal not a long reach brake and you wont need a back brake any way so no biggy.