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@HatBeard
looking at my gps I was hitting 186 bpm within 1/2 mile of the start pushing my normal 5k pace, definitely not feeling fresh methinks.
oh well whole point of my plan is running tired and I did that, actually settled into the run quite well by miles 4 & 5 and average pace was on par with my marathon pace so have a feeling this is how it's going to feel/be like until the marathon now, only difference being the number of miles gets bigger.