Foffa Bikes

so basically they're just overpriced for what they are and people who don't know a lot about bikes buy them because they don't know any better/don't like the idea of a 2nd hand bike that is probably made of actual steel

and foffing off is the official term for wanking over bikes

So no one has shit themselves recently?

Almost. Last night and all day today. I thought I'd eat the 3 remaining Krispy Kreme donuts as a belated birthday treat to myself.

Kinda backfired. Literally.

so basically they're just overpriced for what they are and people who don't know a lot about bikes buy them because they don't know any better/don't like the idea of a 2nd hand bike that is probably made of actual steel

and foffing off is the official term for wanking over bikes

My bike is costing me 550 on the cycle to work scheme and has a full shimano centaur group set and columbus cromor double butted tubing. I'll admit that I don't know a lot about bikes but I do know a little. I know that campag don't make shit components so the components are either good or very good and,after a bit of research, that columbus cromor tubing is a solidly decent mid range steel tubing and again not shit at all.

Once again, and I have posted the above info. several times in one form or another but not really had it addressed, surely this is actually a reasonable deal? Or is the foffa hatred on here so much in the dna that if foffa started churning out high end carbon framed, electronically geared bikes for a couple of hundred quid a pop, people would still say they were a rip off. There's nothing wrong with criticising a poor product but I do feel that somewhere in this thread objectivity has been lost and it's turned into a witch hunt, appealing to some less commendable human qualities.

shimano centaur group set

I know that campag don't make shit components so the components are either good or very good

?

TijmenK, I'm pretty sure that campag only cater for the upper mid and high end markets and although they're not world dominators anymore they're still well respected and many cycling enthusiasts' go to. So I'm not sure what the question mark is about?

Arrgh, ok got you- I wrote shimano instead of campag- attention to detail is not my forte! Obviously shimano make lots of dross! :)

Toby, sounds like you got a good deal there seeing as a centaur gruppo costs around 450 without wheels. Thats cause of the cyclescheme. I think if it was at full price the other options you would have would probably be better but the foffa deal isnt bad either.

Just remember that a frame is not simply the sum of the tubeset. Theres a reason why a colombus SLX frameset made by Ugo De Rosa is better than a colombus SLX frameset made by a chinese mass produced factory (ie a Foffa). What people are saying is that there are better options as the Foffa frames are perhaps not of the standard that most bikes running a spanking centaur groupset would normally be. Id agree but also say that Foffa isnt criminally overpriced or poor quality either.

Toby, sounds like you got a good deal there seeing as a centaur gruppo costs around 450 without wheels. Thats cause of the cyclescheme. I think if it was at full price the other options you would have would probably be better but the foffa deal isnt bad either.

Just remember that a frame is not simply the sum of the tubeset. Theres a reason why a colombus SLX frameset made by Ugo De Rosa is better than a colombus SLX frameset made by a chinese mass produced factory (ie a Foffa). What people are saying is that there are better options as the Foffa frames are perhaps not of the standard that most bikes running a spanking centaur groupset would normally be. Id agree but also say that Foffa isnt criminally overpriced or poor quality either.

Thanks puncture for the balanced feedback, it's much appreciated. I've a lot to learn about bikes and have no idea what would be the difference between a De Rosa and a chinese made frame from the same tubing. Qualtity of of the butting? dimensions of the frame (and research gone into achieving these)? quality of the paint job? Or all of the above and some other kind of whichcraft I don't know about?! :)

Alignment, joint strength (accuracy of mitering, quality of brazing / welding), stiffness, balance, finish quality (paint may chip easily, bubble, allow water in etc), cleanness of threading on bb and steerer, are all things that can be fucked up.

Right! Guess I should have guessed there would be more to a craft they've been perfecting for decades! Hopefully mine was made by the chinese factorie's best worker. Maybe there's a communist style bronze statue of him in the town square, celebrating his fine craftmanship and work ethic! ;)

it's all about which craft, indeed

Theres a reason why a colombus SLX frameset made by Ugo De Rosa is better than a colombus SLX frameset made by a chinese mass produced factory

There's also a reason (beyond mere wage differential) why a frame made by an artisan is about 10 times the price of a factory mass-produced one. If there was a mass market for really carefully put together and beautifully finished steel frames, I'd take a £1000 Chinese one over a £2000 Italian, Japanese or Oregonian one any day. Anybody who still thinks the Chinese can't compete on quality with the best in the world is living in the 1980s. At that price point, though, buyers are happy to pay a premium for the illusion of superiority, the delusion that buying local is economically beneficial for their neighbourhood, and the experience of talking to the actual bloke holding the brazing torch in their own locale and language

Wherever you go, if you brief your manufacturer properly and keep on top of quality assurance, you get what you pay for. I haven't seen any real evidence that Dani gets less of what he pays for from his Chinese factory than anybody else buying frames made to retail at around £200

I agree with tester and add that this thread is an embarrassment. Maybe this Toby lad could return in a couple of months with a review of his new bike. All the best Toby, I hope you are not really Dani Foffa

the delusion that buying local is economically beneficial for their neighbourhood, and the experience of talking to the actual bloke holding the brazing torch in their own locale and language

I value all these things very highly. If I get a frame built by talbot at the end of my road, it helps his business. I'm glad to have a successful local frame builder and bike shop, and a bike that has been made by someone I have spoken to will have a higher sentimental value for me. Which part of that is a delusion?

edit- I guess you are talking about bulk buying factory built frames, not custom, so this is all a bit irrelevant..

I value all these things very highly. If I get a frame built by talbot at the end of my road, it helps his business. I'm glad to have a successful local frame builder and bike shop, and a bike that has been made by someone I have spoken to will have a higher sentimental value for me. Which part of that is a delusion?

None of that; I was referring quite specifically to the fact that many people suffer from the delusion that buying manufactured goods made in their own country is more beneficial to their national economy than buying the same goods for less from a foreign factory.

You make a good point. I think the word 'neighbourhood' threw me off.

I imagine the economic argument holds for all sizes of neighbourhood, from individual streets to economic areas like the EU or NAFTA-zone

Mdcc tester ends thread

If only, although I suppose one can only hope.

Actually, you know what, the fact that Danni has not gone down the road of fake profiles bigging up foffa in the years this thread has been running is something of testament to his character. I'm sure it has occurred to him.

I thought he(and his staff/customers) had done this on numerous occasions over the years?

Sounds like you got a good deal this time round but as you say, at the rrp that bike would be a massive rip off.
I hope it provides you many years of cycling pleasure.

Toby, sorry but Jeez just agreed with you so you lost by default. kind of becoming a lfgss godwin's law.

Just to reiterate Punkture, our frames are made from the same guys in Taiwan that supply for Surly and Cooper. I have mentioned this a few times in the past but you must have missed this, so before you state something which might defame a genuine company make sure you know what you are talking about.

And MDCC is right, people still struggle to realise that some of the Far East made frames are as good as some Italian ones. There must be a reason why Bianchi closed down their factory and get all their steel frames made in taiwan these days.

And Toby, I appreciate your input on the forum, you are more than welcome to give an honest review of your new bike after a few months of riding it, as the problem we have had for a long time here is that a few people on this forum made a lot of defamatory accusations without never bothering to come and try one of our bikes out despite the fact that we offered it many times.

I think a lot of people had their knickers in a twist about the high RRPs and the fact that, for most people here, 'bespoke' means 'framebuilder and my choice of tubes',not 'OTP frame and my choice of colourway'.

The thing is that public opinion turns around about as quickly as a supertanker. So it'll take a while for the new pricing to filter into people actually changing their minds. In the meantime, people are going to be slightly wary 'cos they don't like being patronised by misuse of terms they feel they understand better than most.