Town planning and cycling a.k.a bad junctions

Just starting a thread for a topic that keeps coming up and yet I do not think that we have a thread for.

This thread is for the documentation of bad junctions, the planning process, any proposals to change junctions, and the effects of poor town planning on safety, cycling numbers and general wellbeing within the city.

Thanks DK.

Can the debate about rlj at bad junctions be moved to here, or have the posts been deleted forever?

My point (made in the wrong place) was about the nature of the red lights down at mornington crescent. If you are travelling through with traffic, as people from either side of the station try to switch across all the lanes (depending if you're heading to Hampstead, highgate, or holloway), it's a horrible place to be.

Moreover, there's three bus stops at the top of that road, half of which need to change lanes too. I know that RLJ is generally frowned upon, but I'd rather be frowned upon, than risk being sandwiched between a transit van and the no.31. I tend to jump through the lights to get ahead of the traffic flow, then back to responsible riding by camden town.

Another horrendous junction is Swiss cottage, as has been mentioned a few times. There aren't many places more intimidating to be on a bike in NW London than that stretch of finchley road.

what's stopping you from getting off for 2 seconds and pushing your bike across the junction? safe and lawful. everyone wins.

I do this- my girlfriend was amazed the first time I did it, but it's often the fastest, most convenient way of crossing a junction.

I suspect she thought I was being patronising "just get off and walk", but once you realise that part of the advantage of riding a bike is being flexible (get off it, push, get back on) and that it is not a sign of weakness you will be a happier cyclist I suspect.

Or get in a lane in primary position, and don't feel the need to filter to the front of the queue of traffic.

Sorry, just to be clear, I'm not talking about the junction, I don't RLJ into oncoming traffic, it's just a filter. I could get off, on to the pavement, walk a few metres and remount I suppose, but that wouldn't give me that extra time to get ahead of the traffic up to the top of camden town.

this is where I mean - https://maps.google.com/maps?q=camden+town&hl=en&ll=51.534934,-0.138826&spn=0.0012,0.00327&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.624204,107.138672&hnear=Camden+Town,+London,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.534982,-0.13886&panoid=6jVxlxOccet375jG0fisOw&cbp=12,328.83,,0,6.42

^^ this.

I find myself doing this much more more often now.

then i suggest taking a bus.

Is it imperative to filter? Didn't realise.

It must be nearly half a mile from Mornington Crescent to Camden. There's absolutely loads of time to get into whichever lane you need.

I hate it when they put an extra pavement down the middle of a road (dunno what the official name is) - it narrows all the lanes and prevents safe overtaking from cars when the traffic is moving and safe filtering from bikes when it isn't.

^^Not if you lack the skills to anticipate where you wish to go, look around, signal your intention, find an appropriate gap, check again and move into it. Exactly the same skills people use when driving a car.

My rule of thumb is to ride in the manner I'd like to see drivers use the road, so not mounting the kerb or running red lights, signalling intentions early and clearly (so not indicating once already turning) but there seem to be many cyclists who think differently.

^^ no idea what they're called, but they are an appallingly flawed attempt to 'calm' traffic, which is presumably their purpose. in practice they do the complete opposite as they simply encourage faster vehicles to 'shoot the rapids' in order to get beyond them as soon as possible. Railton Road in Brixton is a shining example of this fuckwittery.

I assume you mean a 'median strip'. They are used to encourage and make informal pedestrian crossings safer.
http://aseasyasridingabike.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/picture-3.png

I hate it when they put an extra pavement down the middle of a road (dunno what the official name is) - it narrows all the lanes and prevents safe overtaking from cars when the traffic is moving and safe filtering from bikes when it isn't.

Like in Brixton, hated that section as it felt like a fast road despite being in the high street.

Sorry, just to be clear, I'm not talking about the junction, I don't RLJ into oncoming traffic, it's just a filter. I could get off, on to the pavement, walk a few metres and remount I suppose, but that wouldn't give me that extra time to get ahead of the traffic up to the top of camden town.

this is where I mean - https://maps.google.com/maps?q=camden+town&hl=en&ll=51.534934,-0.138826&spn=0.0012,0.00327&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.624204,107.138672&hnear=Camden+Town,+London,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.534982,-0.13886&panoid=6jVxlxOccet375jG0fisOw&cbp=12,328.83,,0,6.42

I used to ride up Eversholt street and then get straight into the second lane on the Hight Street and stay there in primary so I was in a (relatively) good position for going straight on by Delancey Street. These days on my commute (Covent Garden to Haverstock Hill) I avoid the entire stretch by going Somers Town/Royal College Street/Prince of Wales Road. A bit slower but much more relaxing.

As mentioned, as you approach Parkway it's also bedlam with a lot of buses trying to get from the kerb to whichever lane they need at the lights. The entirety of Camden Hight Street needs a complete rethink, not just Mornington Crescent end.

Mornington Crescent end.

blinking flip - he's only bloody won the game!

Like in Brixton, hated that section as it felt like a fast road despite being in the high street.

Maybe it's because it looks like dual carriageway to drivers?

There's a bit coming out of Hackney Wick where I often get beeped for being in the right-hand lane (when turning right) and there's always some idiot revving up the back of cyclists heading south on Mare St.

I think it makes the road feel and look faster but forces you to cycle vehically, causing conflict all round.

I was going to post in the Rider Down thread about the much-hated Camden one-way system but didn't because it wouldn't have been appropriate.

Basically, the Delancey Street junction is completely inappropriate to accommodate both the speed and volume of turning traffic there. Much as Parkway is scarcely a main street in character, either, all westbound traffic should turn left at that junction and the area between these streets should be modally filtered, including Delancey Street. (Delancey Street is, of course, a more direct connection west than Parkway, but the more through motor traffic can be reduced in the area, the better, and keeping it on a small, coarse-grained network of streets is imperative without creating what are effectively officially-sanctioned rat-runs.)

Anyway, as I've posted elsewhere, the primary task in Camden remains to return the Camden one-way system to two-way operation, and the aforementioned measures should be part of that.

Another horrendous junction is Swiss cottage, as has been mentioned a few times. There aren't many places more intimidating to be on a bike in NW London than that stretch of finchley road.

I learned how to ride around gyratories without any problems at Swiss Cottage. It also greatly reinforced my determination to get rid of all of them.

Sorry, just to be clear, I'm not talking about the junction, I don't RLJ into oncoming traffic, it's just a filter. I could get off, on to the pavement, walk a few metres and remount I suppose, but that wouldn't give me that extra time to get ahead of the traffic up to the top of camden town.

this is where I mean - https://maps.google.com/maps?q=camden+town&hl=en&ll=51.534934,-0.138826&spn=0.0012,0.00327&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.624204,107.138672&hnear=Camden+Town,+London,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.534982,-0.13886&panoid=6jVxlxOccet375jG0fisOw&cbp=12,328.83,,0,6.42

When the lights turn green on that right hand lane, is there already traffic moving in the left?

If so, yeah that's not going to be much fun to negotiate on a bicycle, even more so if you're a slow and/or not a very confident cyclist.

This thread mirrors the Gyratories thread I started a while back.

Maybe they should be merged into a thread concerning traffic planning, junctions and one-way systems.

My current bugbear is the the near total non-enforcement of 20mph zones.

Yes, never ever seen this. When I drive in Germany there are two or three 20mph sections in a 10mile stretch I regularly drive with mobile speed cameras often enough to make me follow the rules.