The danger of dangerisation

While there is lots to be done to get more people riding there is a real issue with the current climate of irrational fear of conditions for cycling. London streets have vastly improved to a greater or lesser degree. Cycle commuting has about trebled over the past 5 years. Drivers are getting used to cyclists and the safety in numbers seems born out statistically as ksi per mile traveled have dropped.

While this is happening the voices shouting how dangerous it is have been getting louder, more strident, and calls for separation and the introduction of Dutch infrastructure all paint (pun intended) quite a negative picture.

Apart from these scares putting off some new riders there is also an effect of not acknowledging progress and successes that have been achieved without Dutch style infrastructure. Some people are questioning the value of training people to ride while the roads are so dangerous (forgetting the fact that training gives people skills to ride in a variety of conditions and helps them make riding much less dangerous as any trained rider will attest)

While I know that the Go Dutch campaign began with good intentions and that most LCC' people genuinely wish to work to get people riding it is time perhaps for them to begin some more positive campaigning, to remind people about the fun of cycling and to proffer some tips and to actively promote cycle training as a way into getting riding using our current infrastructure .

We could end up in a situation where this fear and hysteria snowballs, we don't get the Utopian infrastructure they are calling for, riders could get put off riding and this could take us back to the dark days when riding was a strange activity not a normal one as it has become recently.

I sat outside the Yorkshire Grey pub yesterday evening with a mate and we counted the number of riders in the asl heading east. Every minute there were on average 30 riders waiting that's almost 2000! riders in an hour at one junction, un-treated, non segregated, no aggro.

What can we do to reverse this trend?

I sat outside the Yorkshire Grey pub yesterday evening with a mate and we counted the number of riders in the asl heading east. Every minute there were on average 30 riders waiting that's almost 2000! riders in an hour at one junction, un-treated, non segregated, hardly any argo.

What can we do to reverse this trend?

Steal their bikes?

(I only read these two paragraphs)

Or, seriously, accept that this fear is real, it exists no matter how much you wish it away, and is the prime factor in putting people off cycling, and you build separate, decent quality, well-thought-out cycling infrastructure to eliminate it.

Perhaps you should consider recreational cycling differently from non-recreational cycling.
The former can happen off-road (and exclusively does for some people - e.g. the ones that drive their MTBs or BMXs to ride somewhere) or on road but out of cities, and the perception of danger is different, as is the perception of fun. Even hardcore anti-cyclist motorists think this type of cycling is something they might participate in.
The Go Dutch approach, I think, is not about promoting recreational cycling, but promoting non-recreational cycling as an alternative to motor vehicle or tube traffic, and encouraging people to cycle in places and for purposes they would never have previously dreamed of. For example being able to safely commute at a gentle pace so as to arrive at work without getting all sweat. Or taking their children out on the bikes to another part of the city.
There's room for it all, in my opinion.

I agree that there is room for a variety of interventions
but people need to talk less about dangerous roads and junction, lethal lorries, etc and get back to working with boroughs and tfl with an agenda to get more riding and skill up people. This was happening to great effect before the Go-Dutch thing and some bloggers started suggesting that current roads are so dangerous

There certainly is more talk.
Talk can be just that.
Actions speak louder than words.
Be the rider drivers wish they could be.

Whilst you may see lots of cyclists outside the Yorkshire Grey (where a cyclist suffered horrific injuries earlier this year), we see extremely few here in North Brent. It's very hostile to cyclists in these parts...

I find it very hard to see genuine mass cycling in this country with safety in numbers and some training, useful though that is.

But I agree, people like the LCC need to promote cycling for all the benefits that it brings whilst not losing sight of the fact that politicians are making decisions on cycling provision that are killing people needlessly. It's a very difficult balance to strike and maybe there is an argument that it has gone a bit too far towards the dangerisation angle.

Whilst you may see lots of cyclists outside the Yorkshire Grey (where a cyclist suffered horrific injuries earlier this year), we see extremely few here in North Brent. It's very hostile to cyclists in these parts...

What makes it feel hostile in n. Brent? Driver aggression? Speed?
What could be done to Improve thing there?

What makes it feel hostile in n. Brent? Driver aggression? Speed?
What could be done to Improve thing there?

Driver aggression, failure to understand 'taking the lane', proximity of parked cars, poor road surfaces, ubiquity of driving trivial distances, close passes by numerous buses, etc. etc...

Be the rider drivers wish they could be.

I try to make it extra obvious how relaxed and happy i am when i'm passing a long queue of cars.

Be the rider drivers wish they could be.

I try to make it extra obvious how relaxed and happy i am when i'm passing a long queue of cars.

So if you were one of those drivers in the queue how would you feel to pe passed by a cool relaxed happy (smug) dude on a bike? #Needbalance?

I've thought about making a T shirt that says 'Ha Ha, you're stuck in a car!', but sympathy (and apathy) have stopped me so far.

And you wonder why some motorists get shitty about cyclists?

Why is it your business to make assumptions about others? We all hate being lumped in as "tree hugging" "red light jumping" etc etc ad nauseum, but there's no need for double standards. Not every vehicle is making a short, easily avoidable journey (unless it's a school run).

Ride you bike, if you want to. Let others ride their bikes, if they want to, but let them also drive, if they want to.

So if you were one of those drivers in the queue how would you feel to pe passed by a cool relaxed happy (smug) dude on a bike? #Needbalance?

Your initial post is really good and deserves discussion, but this one is a bunch of aged shoemakers.

"I Have never owned a car, and have no intention of using a car, because if I did it would make me soft" Obree
Cyclist magazine October 13
That will do me.#lifeonthestreet

BBC radio programme More or less discuss the issue of how dangerous riding a bike is (20mins in to programmme)

Health benefits outweigh any risk of crashing which is pretty low.
The health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks 10 times

Which means dangerising cycling, putting people off, is a risky thing to do

Ride you bike, if you want to. Let others ride their bikes, if they want to, but let them also drive, if they need to.

ftfy

[trollface.jpg]

I think London's drivers show amazing patience faced with the bicycle related f*ck-wittery we all witness everyday.

More sense from Carlton Reid

A great deal of cycle campaigning is currently stressing the dangers of cycling, and too often ignoring the multiple reasons why so many people get into cycling in the first place. Cycling is not suicidal.

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/sell-the-smooth-face-not-the-wrinkles

^ Twitter types are knives out for Carlton on this one.

Well done, Carlton, good post.

Milley Cyrus and or David Beckham pictured riding bikes [/thread]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/women-cycling-in-london-must-be-more-assertive-to-protect-themselves-from-killer-lorries-a2488111.html

But constant highlighting of cyclist accidents can be a bit misleading. I get told all the time: ‘You are taking your life in your own hands, you are crazy.’ It’s misleading. It’s putting people off.

Thanks Oliver. Sensible stuff! We need to hear more such views rather than the usual hysteria

This is good too for un-dangerisation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tWVC45QkNQ&feature=youtu.be

Recognise the narrators voice? (Someone 'on here')