Campag pista

Has anyone experience of the latest manifestation of pista chainset and bottom bracket? Quality,ease of fitting etc?

Surely somebody out there has some knowledge,particularly in regard to finish. I read somewhere quality was not as good as would be expected. Alternatives?

Don't think its changed over the past dozen or so years. I think some people just want to piss on Campa.
I've got a Record Pista chainset and its fit/finish is quite good. I don't see much a difference from the finish on my late 90s Record Strada cranks which I view as the height of Campa metalworking: design, material and quality. If I compare the finish on my Sugino 75 with the Campa I might say that the Sugino might have a slight edge but the Campa wins on design. I've heard people complain about the finish on the rear of the spider but my Sugino 75 is no better. Hard to compare the alloys and forgings of the two with one another but they are both excellent and used at the highest level of elite competition--- being Japanese the Sugino has the NJS stamp but that does not mean that the Campa is ill-suited to Keirin only not-allowed on the Nippon circuit. The Dura Ace is very nicely made but has a quirkier bottom bracket. The standard Pista bottom bracket is more or less the same as the Y2K carbon cartridge with a 111mm axle (as used by Athena). Its a cartridge so not quite up to the level of smoothness one can feel turning a Hatta R9400-- the "standard" BB people tend to use with the Sugino--- with ones hand's--- and if that matters a friend made Ti bottom brackets for the old Campa Record road that one could turn by blowing at them---- but "on the track" the difference is below the measurement threshold. Stiffness? All are stiff enough. In today's European marketplace where the Campa Record is significantly less expensive (~200 EURO including a Campa track chainring) than the Sugino (~250 EURO without a chainring) I think the choice is pretty easy... unless one really absolutely needs the stiffness.. then its the Dura Ace (~350 EURO without a chainring).. All these use 144 chainrings so no problem mixing Campa, Sugino, Dura-Ace chainrings..

Aren't the the Campag Pista renowned for cracking?

Aren't the the Campag Pista renowned for cracking?

No. The problem with cracking was with the old Pista/Stada design prior to the C-Record. The preventive modifications are, I think, well documented. Cranks can crack, especially around the pedal eye but there is little empirical experience to suggest that modern Campa Pista faults are more frequent than those found with the contemporary Sugino 75 or Dura Ace 7600 square taper cranks... The main problem is typically a product of fretting corrosion. Use of a suitable assembly paste as commonly used in the automotive industry, however, can help to reduce tribocorrosion. Klüberpaste 46 MR 401 is a favorite. I've lately been also using some Wera Ceramic Paste in screw applications--- such as pedal/crank interfaces.

Older record is really excellent in terms of design and build quality, I missed a pair of 80's Record cranks of fleabay the other night for £56 ;( Good value for money too.

The only ones that cracked were the unanodised versions. Pretty easy to tell them apart.

Anodised - creamy silver finish. UNanodised, either shiny or very dull with white spots of *rust

Older record is really excellent in terms of design and build quality, I missed a pair of 80's Record cranks of fleabay the other night for £56 ;( Good value for money too.

The only ones that cracked were the unanodised versions. Pretty easy to tell them apart.

All the old Strada cranks were hand polished and got a light eloxial coating. The largest change of their design lifespan (15 years) was in the fluting. The 1983 50th Aniversary cranks were without fluting and got a flatter face. The cranks were then fully redesigned in 1985 to exploit some other changes in materials (Avional instead of Ergal) and gearing (135 BCD instead of 144). The first of these C-Record cranks, however, had engraved logos and this presented a number of problems. There cranks hung around until the mid 1990s when Campa introduced the Record 9-speed, moved to a low profile and introduced their own cartridge bottom brackets (at first offering both designs). The current Campa Pista owes a lot to the C-Record and featured until the supply went dry even the "Sherrif Star" hubs of that design.

I wish they kept the C Record dust cap for the pista hub. the current front pista hub is actually C Record Chorus with a solid axle.

use a round diamond needle file on the insides of Nuovo record crank spiders to remove potential stress risers.

I wish they kept the C Record dust cap for the pista hub. the current front pista hub is actually C Record Chorus with a solid axle.

Its all from that era. I'd strongly suspect that its all old stock whence not of a lesser quality. Since 2001 I don't think there have been any changes. In 2001, for example, the Pista group was still listed with the large flange C-Record hub but by 2002 the catalogues featured only the low flange hubs-- with quite different dies between front (Chorus) and rear (C-Record). The only thing I can imagine that Campa does these days with the Pista grouppo is assembly or maybe finish.
The dust cap? The caps on the C-Record era Record hubs are ... well.. looked nicer than the black plastic end-caps that replaced them in 1997 but they were more trouble.. probably the most trouble I've seen in caps.. That said... still great (and quite beautiful) hubs.. When they run out I suspect we'll see ugly black hubs or whatever they have in their stockpiles :-)

the pista wheels are probably 1990s Zonda anodized black

people seem not too mind paying for a very heavy set of old design track wheels! I hate the stickers, they look cheap

that would be like Mavic using CXP 14 rims for their Ellipse track wheels but they use current model Cosmic Elite road rim

people seem not too mind paying for a very heavy set of old design track wheels!

Old design is not a problem. Don't know of any contemporary alu rim offering to rival the 300g class rims of the 1970s/80s for building up track wheels. The closest contemporary rim is the Ambrosio F20 Chrono (which is just a slight evolution, I think, of the Montreal Durex Chrono from the 1970s/80s). Back then standard was 36 spoke.... still is in Nippon Keirin.
(thinking, in fact, of building up a new set of reserve wheels around 7600 hubs and split between using a pair of Super Champion Record du Monde or Ambroisio Montreal Chrono rims).

I hate the stickers, they look cheap

Its Zeitgeist. Bold graphics, black parts, conspicuous labels, Goes with the owner's tattoos..

that would be like Mavic using CXP 14 rims for their Ellipse track wheels but they use current model Cosmic Elite road rim

Only because the CXP-14 were not terribly good. They were Mavics deepish dish "aero" rim before the boutique wheels took over the entire market, carbon became mainstream and "Made in China". The Cosmic Elite rims are .. Personally I think the choice now is either new school carbon or old school box section alloy.

Many thanks for your informative response EdwardZ,I've been away and missed it. I'm gonna go with the Campag.

Many thanks for your informative response EdwardZ,I've been away and missed it. I'm gonna go with the Campag.

Campa is the best deal going..
The complaints that the grouppo is outdated are, I think, misplaced. Shimano might be the darling of the UCI track but if one looks closely the only "modern" component in the DA-7710 ensemble is the crank--- and its hollow/Octalink design is from 1997. The hubs are low flange hardly different from Campa's offering. Shimano even continues to sell DA-7600 cranks (and hubs)--- a group that premiered in 1988-- in Japan as the NJS press-fit is favoured by many Keirin riders--- Campa is as non-Nippon no longer homologated by the NJS. And the Sugino 75? Introduced in 1985 it was a clear knock-off of the Campagnolo 50 Anniversary (1983) crank.
Right now I think Campa is the best bargain since their prices seem to be based on old Lira calculations. Its interesting that a Campa crankset (crank, bolts, cover, chainring, bottom bracket) is currently priced lower--- Wiggle wants ~220 GBP-- than just the arms of a Dura Ace crank (250 GBP at most places). Its an odd market when even a Sugino 75 costs significantly more than the Campa..

Why fix what aint broke ;}

I've got Dura Ace track cranks from 1981, still going strong. I'd prefer Campag though tbh...

Talked about the pista cranks with some folks of campag at Eurobike, basically what they said was the market and sales are too small to invest in R&D of new track components and they don't plan to change anything in the nearest future.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Talked about the pista cranks with some folks of campag at Eurobike, basically what they said was the market and sales are too small to invest in R&D of new track components and they don't plan to change anything in the nearest future.

What kind of R&D could one even deploy? What is a group? Headset, cranks, seatpost, hubs, pedals? Other than the crankset/bottom bracket and hubs its standard Record or other... Hubs? Most of the wheels these days are specialized carbon or at least boutique of which Campa has a number of offerings.. Really what's left.. The cranks.. But an outboard bottom brackets would not demand R&D. Campa already has them. A new crank to use them? They just don't really make sense. For Campa it would need to be carbon... The SRAM Omnium track crankset is based around that fashion.. Then there is the FSA ISIS based ..
If you look at the market... cranks are pretty much Shimano, Sugino and Campa. The Shimano DuraAce--- a pre Y2K design--- has been doing fine at the highest level.. Campa and Sugino too have been doing pretty well.. In Japan Keirin Sugino and even square taper DuraAce are commonly seen so that technology still seems to be accepted as "best" by a number of highly paid price insensitive elite riders. A hollow alu crank might be nice but its off the map for Campa has they have their investment in carbon.. Weight is not really that big a issue on the track and frames are already featherlight... Is there anything to gain by going to a carbon fibre external BB based track crank? Bottom line.. At this point in time there is really nothing to do.. Its not about market or even demand.. Its about function.. Would Campa get more viaibility in the Worlds or Olympics? No. Would their fans grab for it or keep to their old school gear? I think the later...

Much as I like the modern C Record chainset, I've benn riding the same Nuovo Record one for five years without a glitch. Chainrings are cheap and they still look lush.