Gillott track. The sentimentalist.

Gillotts have payed a special roll in my life, early memories of my grandfathers bike passion and older friends who used to race or ride Gillotts has left a lasting impression on me. I have always wanted to own one, but they don't seem to cross my path too often or at the right time.

When this frame came up for sale at the end of last year I was just pipped to the post be another forum member...... It has been a niggling at the back of my head for 10 months. So a few weeks ago I contacted NorthLondonLight, the original seller, just to see who he sold it to. He happy obliged and put me in contacted with Photoman. After a week long chat, he decided to sell it to me. Photoman turned out to be a really nice guy with a great zeal and passion for bikes and bike history. Some gems in his stable.Two amazing forum members who went out of their way to help......Enough of my rambling sentimental gibberish.

I would love to know It's history. Who used to own it(Ken?). Age?
Serial number and letters on bottom bracket shell:
British Made
GB23 V
191
54 79

KHW CM112(i belive this to be the police dater stamp)

I would like to build this as close to period correct as possible.
A new paint job is on its way.

A Beauty of a frame, the forks are a work of art. Check out "classic lightweights" that the best place to start. Then there is also " classic rendezvous". I remember seeing a big collection on Flickr

is that early integrated head set?

Lug Porn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That's a lovely frame.
Looking forward to seeing this progress.
Subscribed.

interesting headset configuration. lovely frame.

is that early integrated head set?

interesting headset configuration.

I am going to do some more research. It may use a headclip headset, if so it would place the frame 30's or 40's.... saying that, it seems to fit together in the correct way, though the bottom race seem to protrude quite far.....It has cups that sit in the lip of the head-tube that the ball bearings go in....... not sure i'm describing it right.......never seen one like this before.

'Odd' looking track ends there?
You need to speak to Mark Stevens about the frame numbers.

Nice frame here!
There should be a 'T' shape cut near the top of the steerer column if it was built for a head clip. The clip will pinch the steerer column as you adjust it and will hold the stem shaft in place.
Not an expert but the fork crown race does look a bit too chunky.
Headset top nut looks to be alloy, and if it is, most probably be Lytaloy Hobbs of Barbican.

I am going to do some more research. It may use a headclip headset, if so it would place the frame 30's or 40's.... saying that, it seems to fit together in the correct way, though the bottom race seem to protrude quite far.....It has cups that sit in the lip of the head-tube that the ball bearings go in....... not sure i'm describing it right.......never seen one like this before.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/sets/72157617359163094/ More to come

First of all, the lugs. A mix of Curly Cut and Spear. Very unusual. See the Curly Cut set I linked to on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/sets/72157617359163094/
In the 40's Gillotts were experimenting with lug styles so these combos appear but are very rare.
Headclip, maybe but if so the steerer has been cut short. The Lytalloy headset nut may be original and it just used the loose insert races. Itll work. Look like Chater Lea lugs. Looks early to me, 47 ish? Check the steerer for a number. Rear dropouts look like they ve beeen changed or modified. Look modern. Drilled and sleeved rear brake bridge is original. Back then bikes had to do track work, TTs and club work. GR23V is Vaughans casting number. 191 is probably a sand blasters number. The other number with 479 in it could be a messed up frame number. Again , check steerer. At this time they stamped the Year e.g,. 947 for 1947 then the sequential. Only in the 300's in '47 for instance. Frame numbers were on steerer and BOTH rear dropouts. Get scraping. Curved chain stay bridge is unusual too, not seen one b4. Modern headbadge is wrong. Only transfers on early ones unless its from 49 in which case it would have had a brass type. Front dropouts look ugly and wrong. Ascertain date to get spec for correct period kit. Let me know.

May I use the pics on my flickr set?

thank you so much Mark, really great to have a Gillott specialist keen eye look over it.
you have so many amazing bikes. very taken with the Osgear set-up on a couple of them.
I have just looked on the steerer it has 5479 on it. would this indicate 1954?

You are more than welcome to use any of my pictures. Hopefully it will start to look a little nicer with time.......

I would love to know It's history. Who used to own it(Ken?). Age?
Serial number and letters on bottom bracket shell:
British Made
GB23 V
191
54 79

KHW CM112(i belive this to be the police dater stamp)

I would like to build this as close to period correct as possible.
A new paint job is on its way.

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HI Luke, I've just responded to PM and see Mark Stevens (gillottrider) has confirmed much of what I said. Only bit I can add is the last bit KHW ....., that I'm sure is initial of guy who sold it on and CM11 2 is a partial postcode for Billericay which ties in with what I have been told.

I do like a good detective story

''It may use a headclip headset, if so it would place the frame 30's or '' You need to read the History.
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/gillott.html

Gillotts only started frame building in May 1945.

oops, my bad....... will read up tonight.....

Definitely one of my favourite headtube badges. Ace!

''It may use a headclip headset, if so it would place the frame 30's or '' You need to read the History.
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/gillott.html

Gillotts only started frame building in May 1945.

It was a fascinating read. very thorough and well written.

Headclip, maybe but if so the steerer has been cut short. ..... Rear dropouts look like they ve beeen changed or modified. Look modern. ......Front dropouts look ugly and wrong.

The question is, should i try and restore the dropouts and replace the steerer?

Subscribed
Similar emotional connection with Gillotts
I know you'll do it justice.
I was wondering about the headset, My dad's Gillott is 1947, I'll check the frame no BB details to confirm. His has a normal campag chrome set.
He's also got those long-tanged fork ends too.
I tend to think of clip-headsets being a 30's thing (brampton, chater-lea etc) perhaps there were some traditionalists keeping the flame later, request from customers etc. either that or it's just a normal push-in headset that's been resprayed over!
If it is integrated and not spinning well give me a shout as I have quite a few different push-in races that may be of use.
Apparently viscount were using these pop-in races on their bikes right up to the 80's though I think they were just pushing them into spun housings for economic reasons.

Gillotts were the "go to" builder for the traditionalists after the war. I had a 1953 Fleur de Lis with a head clip. But very unusual.
I would not fret about the dropouts or the steerer. Build it up as it is with kit from the 4o's and you won't be far wrong.
The frame number is a puzzle. 1954 is too modern for this frame. 1947 is more like it. Can you take a photo of the number as stamped on the steerer. They were using 3/32nd stamps.

or it's just a normal push-in headset that's been resprayed over!
If it is integrated and not spinning well give me a shout as I have quite a few different push-in races that may be of use.
Apparently viscount were using these pop-in races on their bikes right up to the 80's though I think they were just pushing them into spun housings for economic reasons.

I think the cups part of the frame(99.9% sure), not over sprayed.... I will strip off all the paint. i will then be able to assess and plan the next move.

How is your fathers Gillott progressing? The stem on it is so nice.

Gillotts were the "go to" builder for the traditionalists after the war. I had a 1953 Fleur de Lis with a head clip. But very unusual.
I would not fret about the dropouts or the steerer. Build it up as it is with kit from the 4o's and you won't be far wrong.
The frame number is a puzzle. 1954 is too modern for this frame. 1947 is more like it. Can you take a photo of the number as stamped on the steerer. They were using 3/32nd stamps.

Paul Gibson from Ellis Briggs put me in contact with Chris Marshall. He seems to think he can modify the dropouts to make them look like the ones that would have been originally used....He will also stove enamel the frame. still not sure, i have time to think....

When i strip the frame of paint i will photograph the bottom bracket shell and also the steerer.....

Could the 54 79 refer to the seat tube (it is 54ctc) and frame angles? the best i can make out the headtube is also 79 degrees.

I was just sent this 1952 catalog:
Thanks Philip.
http://threespeedhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Gillott-Catalog-c1950-UK.pdf

Much nicer than the Gilliott I had land in my lap, plain lugs but seem to be chromed under the respray. Mine is more of a path frame as has mudguard eyes, I am going to strip it over the winter but not going so original as the cottered cranks are a state and the bars a rediculus 36mm width.

Looking forward to your progress!

any chance of a picture harv?