What does LCC think about Bikeability and cycle training?

Thanks Oliver, very informative, and you made me google pars/partes pro too so all good learning.

The pro segregation lobby must admit its not possible for everyone in London to have a completely segregated route from their home, work and everywhere they want to go. So mingling with motor traffic is inevitable so I don't see why there seems so much focus on either/or instead of both.Oliver points out the two are not mutually exclusive but it appears as though both sides are arguing against each other.

In relation to funding, in the big scheme of things Bikeability funding is but a drop in the ocean, and I don't have any figures but I'm sure the Bikeability funding is dwarfed by the funding needed to deliver the segregation proposals. I don't work in this area but its understandable that those that do may be defensive and protective over their job, and in this penny pinching era its hard not to equate the segregation costs into numbers of cycle trainers, teachers, nurses, whatever. But even the costs of segregation represent a tiny proportion of the overall road budget. And I bet those numbers are tiny when compared to the crazy numbers banded around for other current transport proposals such as HS2 and extra runwaysa/terminals at Heathrow, so its definately possible to fund segregation and training.

Oliver quoted Boris as saying that E&C is fine if you 'keep your wits about you', but the 'or have higher skills' bit was'nt in the quotations so I assume he did'nt say that bit. Is he prepared to do a 'Gummer' and have his love child cycle unattended round E&C? I cycle around E&C roundabout rather than use the E&C CS7 bypass, where I've had more near misses with cyclists coming the other way cutting across at that 90 degree turn than I have with 3 lanes of traffic going in the same direction. But the point is thats me, I cycle quite fast round E&C so the variation in speed between me and the traffic on the roundabout is minimal and by keeping up with traffic its much safer. (Ha! a cyclist using the maintaining traffic flow argument instead of slating it, hell hath frozen over) But we don't all, me inlcuded, cycle like Tony Martin so I totally understand why slower cyclists feels threatened and if we are to encourage people to take up cycling there needs to be an alternative.

Has Boris nailed his colours to the mast in terms of supporting cycle training? Or rather is he prepared to continue to fund cycle training? I'm guessing the tory stance is they'd prefer the 'big society' to pick up the tab for free and rely on the goodwill of volunteers to provide it? If cycling to school uptake has not increased I think its a bit of a stretch to deem Bikability a failure, I've just had a brief look on the website and it does'nt appear to have a stated aim of increasing cycling to school, but rather to increase cycling skills and confidence on todays roads. Also do all schools even have facilities for cyclists? And if the numbers cycling to school are so low, then from a cost perspective the schools may deem investment in bike sheds a low priority and not the best use of their limited funds. If cycle training alone is not enough to coax the masses onto their bikes then other options need looking at and should be welcomed, in addition to, and not instead of sklls training. If large sections of the population are crying out for some segregated roads and it gets them on bikes when they otherwise would'nt consider it, why not?.

While I think its impotant to address competent cycling v incompetent cycling, I don't think the de-skilling argument should be kicked into the long grass, but I look at it from the drivers perspective too, so include competent driving v incompetent driving. Things are being done, when I passed my driving test over 20 years ago there was no mention of other vulnerable road users at all, not that remember anyway, and bus and lorry drivers had no training regarding cyclists, there is clearly much more to be done.
We may not realise it but by loads of us cycling we are training drivers to be better drivers around cyclists. The main thing that gets me annoyed, and would help speed up this 'training' is more drivers actually got appropriate punishment in those horrible instances when cyclists are killed by drivers. Despite all the threads and moans on here about bad driving in London, I think on the whole London drivers are very good around cyclists, simply due to exposure to them in increasing numbers. Similarly I think our country cousins are much better drivers in condtions such as snow, again simply due to greater experience driving in these conditions. Major generalisations I know but they are my observations.

It seems a bit hypocritical for some politicians to bang on about cycle training creating 'high entry requirement for cycling' and to argue about helmet compulsion in the same breath, but lets not get into the helmet debate......but I feel the same for segregation as I do for helmets, pro choice but anti compulsion. I did'nt know that cycling on cycle ways is mandatory in Holland if there is one available. I understand that is not the proposal here, but that makes a big differnce to my support of them, and I think this is a very important point and there needs to be wider awareness of this to avoid the 'get in the cycle lane, thats for you, the road if for us' claims that will inevitably follow unless this is made very clear.

Unfortunately these days having short term deliverable outcomes mirrors the politcial system we have, and Bikability is being judged on its short term deliverables rather than the long term benefits of Bikeability that Skydancer mentions upthread. Unfortunately this country is shite at considering the long game, we get sick of the prevailing Govt, vote next time for 'not this lot' and there's numerous changes and nothing is followed through, as any public sector worker in post for more than a few years experiences with these cyclical 'restructures'.

Despite my cynicism I came to London 20 years ago and there's been a massive increase in cycling here in that time, so the shift is happening, even if it not as quickly as some would like. It may seem an impossible task to redesign all London junctions with better consideration for cyclists. I recall a consultation asking for feedback on London's worst ones like E&C and the one at Oval, so there seems a commitment at least to try and improve things, even if its done in small baby steps. But more than this there is an ongoing struggle to embed cycling into all aspects of future planning and policy, I don't know what Olivers job is exactly but I guess he spends a lot of time trying to make this a reality. We need to see cycling move beyond more than just an activity that ticks a few boxes for politicians.

Jeeeesus sorry I've rambled on, anyway I find the debate interesting and will rage for a while it seems.