Doping

Goodbye present to British Cycling from Pat McQuaid?

Remind me who JTL's agent is again?

Doping sucks

Slightly off-topic, how are biological passport values established?

Are they set from the moment that a rider turns pro, with the values that the rider has at that point?

Basically yes. The idea is that they establish a baseline of values from the initial tests. If you choose to dope then it'll reflect in the values, or you have to dope year round to maintain the baseline values.

What's happened here is that JTL's values from last year look odd compared to the ones recorded this year, the assumption being that he doped last year to get a contract.

So a positive way of looking at this would be that he was caught due to stopping doping whilst at Sky, and that making his values look odd compared to previously, when he was on the sauce?

His form this year certainly backs that up, found Sky's training regime too hard and the people tipped as a future GT contender has been found sadly lacking on the World Tour.

However it does indicate a clean regime at Sky which is encouraging. No reason why they shouldn't put him on the special sauce people believe they are using at Sky, so his racehorse to donkey transformation does show Sky in good light. I think.

Others will say it makes a mockery of their ZTP, but they wouldn't be the first team to be hoodwinked. Pro-riders dopes heavily to win races to secure fat new contract, it's a story as old as time.

Endura were doing their own testing and he was tested by Garmin and Sky before signing so if he was doing something he must have been pretty good at it ;)

So a positive way of looking at this would be that he was caught due to stopping doping whilst at Sky, and that making his values look odd compared to previously, when he was on the sauce?

There was talk of JTL last year after a breakout 2012, people were suspicious because of the lack of the BP. I would say his anonymous season so far and now this is a strong indicator that he was blood doping last year and didn't this one.

Endura were doing their own testing and he was tested by Garmin and Sky before signing so if he was doing something he must have been pretty good at it ;)

I doubt Endura had the budget to do proper testing.

As for Sky and Garmin, they can do physiological testing and monitor some blood values, but with no baseline to compare against it's hard to determine what is normal.

And without the biological passport blood doping isn't detectable: you are after all simply re-infusing your own blood.

Poor JTL. He doesn't deserve this

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-endura-manager-defends-tiernan-locke

Poor JTL. He doesn't deserve this

Why?

Innocent until proven guilty.

I wonder who leaked it to Walsh? Given how shit JTL has been this year, this coming out now means that Sky have every reason to terminate his two year contract and free up a spot for someone who might be useful.

Remind me who JTL's agent is again?

For those that don't know btw, it's one Andrew McQuaid, son of Patrick Aloysious McQuaid, former president of the UCI.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Given the fact drug tests are relatively easy to evade, when someone gets pinged for anything you have to sit up and take notice. The excuse being used is that Sky's training has been too hard and lowered his natural baseline values.

Hmmm

My comment was that it's only been raised for question and that should not even by public knowledge yet. Until evidence is produced confirming he doped, people should sit back, mull the possibility but not weigh in without fact saying that he doped.

He had good form in the TOB. This year he's been used as a domestic, having to ride hard at the start of races to shut things down, so it's little wonder we don't see him at the end. Just because his form from the TOB doesn't match up with now, does not confirm he doped. It may look suspicious, especially with the apparently Bio passport values, but no material evidence is there.

I'd rather the rider have the opportunity to come forward and answer the letter and prove he wasn't doped, than have the entire cycling community defend on the rider, with wild hysteria. It's despicable, the rapidity the community is willing to turn.

Had he tested positive with an A sample and confirmed by B. Then feel free to lynch him. However, currently he's only flagged some odd values and deserves the respect to answer to this without doping naysayers jumping on him.

That's all fine and dandy in an ideal world, doesn't cut it in a sport with such a tainted history as cycling. This was all being muttered during and immediately after his 2012 season, and the fact he wasn't part of the BP scheme pointed at, L'Equipe were even reporting on it, suggesting that riders within the peloton had doubts but only if you didn't point a microphone in front of them.

And the fact he's had a disastrous season this season when under the BP scheme does him no favours at all. Give him the benefit of the doubt if you want, but right now the onus is on JTL to prove he wasn't doping, rather than it being proved he was. It isn't a court of law you know.

My comment was that it's only been raised for question and that should not even by public knowledge yet.

Like that's happened in the last 20 years.

Yes, be poignant on this coming to light. However, to jump around shouting doper doper, is not the correct manner to deal with it. It's not fair on the individual to be smeared to quickly. Not so long ago, JTL was a dream kid, winning the TOB. Cycling fans as so eager to turn their fury on anyone with a smell of doping, which is right, but here he has only been sent a letter - not factually tested positive. If the committee is unsatisfied and deems him to have doped. Then shout from the rooftops. And god have mercy on British Cycling, with the resultant comeback.

Let him try and answer, with a good degree and then shout doper if it be so. It's not a court of law, but respect is due. And to tar everyone at the first opportunity, due to the pasts wrong happenings, is ill-thought and unneeded

I don't want to believe he doped, and if it be so, that Sky weren't so stupid to have hired a doper. As it won't just tar SKY, but BC. It will be HUGE and the repercussions will be shattering.

Like that's happened in the last 20 years.

Yes. Nice parting gift of Pat this. Or Sky. Wonder who leaked it. Lots of motives to oust JTL from sky contract. Or Pat to stir shit with Brian.

Yes, be poignant on this coming to light. However, to jump around shouting doper doper, is not the correct manner to deal with it. It's not fair on the individual to be smeared to quickly. Not so long ago, JTL was a dream kid, winning the TOB. Cycling fans as so eager to turn their fury on anyone with a smell of doping, which is right, but here he has only been sent a letter - not factually tested positive. If the committee is unsatisfied and deems him to have doped. Then shout from the rooftops. And god have mercy on British Cycling, with the resultant comeback.

Let him try and answer, with a good degree and then shout doper if it be so. It's not a court of law, but respect is due. And to tar everyone at the first opportunity, due to the pasts wrong happenings, is ill-thought and unneeded

I don't want to believe he doped, and if it be so, that Sky weren't so stupid to have hired a doper. As it won't just tar SKY, but BC. It will be HUGE and the repercussions will be shattering.

Sounds like blind faith to me, dangerous ground. Our cynicism is a sensible default given the history.

And we can speculate all we like, I'm sure he'll still get full pay until a final decision is made regardless of what I or anyone else on here says. This is 2013, having a basis in fact is not a prerequisite to spouting shit on the internet. You may not like it but ho hum, apparently some places in the country don't have internet so you could move there maybe.

But if the Sky PR machine tries to spin this as 'oh he's had a hard year working for the team which is why his values are all over the shop' that sounds like bollocks to me, and I won't accept a note from his mum saying he was bullied into it by those horrible pro's either.

So lets get the the bonfire started in case, we can piss on its flames later if need be but why wait, aint nobody got time for that.

He doped. So did Boardman. Everyone did, except the Aussies, obviously.

/thread