Microcosm Feature Suggestions

They also mentioned adding Facebook account support, presumably in much the same way as the Google Account bridge works.

The person I was speaking to was concerned about what people might think of this.

So... what do you think?

My response was: one of the big reasons we used Persona was because it has a different ethos to other login providers (run by a non-profit, etc.)

And this is still true, as far as I understand it: Google or Facebook will know that you've used Persona, but not what sites you've logged into with it. So it is different than just using your Google Account or Facebook account to log in.

But I'm still concerned that it'll reduce the strength of being differentiated from those services. And I'm not sure I voiced that strongly enough.

Edit: apparently this might not be happening as most users don't know their @facebook.com email address, which is the one they'd need you to enter.

Even I'm fine with Persona supporting a Facebook bridge.

My concern with Facebook Connect is the requirements on the website that implements it to leak information to Facebook that provides them with even more data about the habits of users.

But... Persona would act as an anonymising layer, Facebook would know that a given person logged into Persona, but wouldn't know whether Persona passed that authenticated set of credentials to www.iLoveKnitting.com or www.ImIntoKinkySex.com or www.iHaveNonMainstreamPoliticalViews.com .

Given that Facebook would never know the end web-site involved, this is actually the only way that I would ever be happy about Facebook login.

Effectively Persona becomes an anonymising but authenticated proxy layer. This really is the ultimate ideal.

Worth noting, a lot of those login bridges are on blocked lists, even just the login/authentication modules.

So from my current work desktop I cannot log into a lot of not-blocked sites.

Damn, should have thought about that when I signed up to them with my gmail/fb account...

Just had a quick nosey into sandbox again.

Feature:
breadcrumbs - are you guys doing breadcrumb trails?

Even I'm fine with Persona supporting a Facebook bridge.

My concern with Facebook Connect is the requirements on the website that implements it to leak information to Facebook that provides them with even more data about the habits of users.

But... Persona would act as an anonymising layer, Facebook would know that a given person logged into Persona, but wouldn't know whether Persona passed that authenticated set of credentials to www.iLoveKnitting.com or www.ImIntoKinkySex.com or www.iHaveNonMainstreamPoliticalViews.com .

Given that Facebook would never know the end web-site involved, this is actually the only way that I would ever be happy about Facebook login.

Effectively Persona becomes an anonymising but authenticated proxy layer. This really is the ultimate ideal.

Does this apply to the Google bridge as well? How much do we trust Persona/Mozilla?

There's still the fallback login, right? So I could use hippy@utfs.com or whatever?

Just had a quick nosey into sandbox again.

Feature:
breadcrumbs - are you guys doing breadcrumb trails?

We are (or at least, a navigation module that makes it really easy to see where you are). I've added a topic to https://meta.microcosm.app/microcosms/1/ for it.

Does this apply to the Google bridge as well? How much do we trust Persona/Mozilla?

There's still the fallback login, right? So I could use hippy@utfs.com or whatever?

Persona does not track your activity around the Web. It creates a wall between signing you in and what you do once you're there. The history of what sites you visit is stored only on your own computer.

From https://login.persona.org/about

You can use any email address with Persona, whether it's a Google account or not only affects whether Persona asks you for a password, or if it relies on your Google account login status.

How does the Google Bridge thing work then? You sign into Google then.. ?

So if you're signed in to your Google account, visit Microcosm and click log in, then enter your @gmail.com address it'll allow you to use your Google account to authenticate.

If it's not an email address associated with a Google account, then you get asked for your Persona password instead.

They sort-of explain it here:

Gmail Identity Bridge for Mozilla Persona - YouTube

I wasn't sure on the implementation of that bit (the code's open but I haven't read it). So I asked in the irc channel:

17:02:04 : my understanding (I didn't write sideshow) is that you login to google, we verify the openid token is valid, then the persona google identity bridge issues assertions for persona logins.
17:02:22 : so, google can see that you logged into the persona bridge, but not individual RPs [e.g. Microcosm] that you logged into after that with persona

So Google would know you're using Persona but not the site you're logging in to.

Also: http://identity.mozilla.com/post/57712756801/persona-makes-signing-in-easy-for-gmail-users

If any of this hasn't made sense, do nag us. There's a lot going on and I'm not sure I've explained it that well.

That's kinda what I was after, basically that this Google bridge thing doesn't go further than Persona. Once persona has done its auth with Google, google's out of the way and persona does the auth with the forum or whatever. #braindump

Just had a quick nosey into sandbox again.

Feature:
breadcrumbs - are you guys doing breadcrumb trails?

We haven't solved exactly how this will be done, a lot depends on the UX flow and how intuitive that is. We also don't yet know whether we need a primary navigation bar.

This is something we should get an answer to from hiring a UX/front-end person or agency and see how it works once we've got that UX work done. I'm kinda loathed to build it today without knowing whether it will stay or not.

Does this apply to the Google bridge as well? How much do we trust Persona/Mozilla?

There's still the fallback login, right? So I could use hippy@utfs.com or whatever?

That's kinda what I was after, basically that this Google bridge thing doesn't go further than Persona. Once persona has done its auth with Google, google's out of the way and persona does the auth with the forum or whatever. #braindump

Exactly that.

If a login bridge exists... such as for Gmail, then the password is held by Google and all Google know is "Someone used the bridge to login" and then Google get out of the way.

If a bridge doesn't exist... such as for yourdomain.com, then the password is held by Persona.

All of this is pretty much invisible to the end user, all you know is you login within your email address.

What exactly does the small eye symbol and counter shown along side each topic display? Presumably its the number of views- but is it unique views or total?

It doesn't track uniques, it's just simple counter of the number of times that item has been viewed.

cheers

Lists. So rather than having to quote and post a list each time, and having to find the last list posted, having an list attachment to a thread? So a poster can go straight to it and edit it at any time? So it's still in the thread, but separate from the posts, a bit like how polls appear currently.

Events already have the concept of attendees, being a list of users participating in the event... did you want that concept extended so that it's possible to assert participation more generally?

And would that become confusing and meaningless?

At the moment to participate in an event has a very strong meaning.

To participate in a conversation... well, what does that mean? Do you have to go through the conversation to find the context for the list of participants and derive meaning?

might be useful for things like prospective buyers for group-buys (something that happens a lot on other forums I use)

Does Event have somekind of superclass ListDriven?

I can see some value in GroupPurchase inherits from ListDriven, where each entry has more than UID, so maybe a ListItem.Options field could hold JSON representing choices.

An example might be the Mielec group buy...
Current process:

• Members express interest
  
• Interest List starts
  
• OP gets a quote for rough numbers, finds available options
  
• Purchase Intents, with option details, gathered using Google Form backed by a GoogleDocs Spreadsheet
  
• New list in thread for those who have registered their Purchase Intent
  
• OP declares payment window, tracks progress via GoogleDocs
  
  
  

New Process:

• OP creates GroupPurchase instance, provides Meta Info, LISTSTATE = SURVEY
  
• Members add themselves ITEMSTATE = INTEREST
  
• OP gets quote, options
  
• OP modifies GroupPurchase record to define options, LISTSTATE => METAORDER
  
• Notify list members
  
• Members update their entries to select options (or back out) ITEMSTATE => INTENT
  
• OP "closes" list, LISTSTATE => PREORDER
  
• Notify list members
  
• Members make payments, ITEMSTATE => CONFIRMED (or PAID)
  
• OP exports GroupPurchase info, places order LISTSTATE => ORDERING
  
• OP receives confirmation of order, delivery estimate LISTSTATE => ORDERED
  
• OP updates GroupPurchase info to add detailed delivery options (i.e. if collection requested, 1-to-1, CompassBeers, Delegate; If postage requested, Address or Delegate aka GroupedPostageReceiver)
  
• Notify list members
  
• Members make delivery choices ITEMSTATE => PENDING-COLLECTION or PENDING-DELIVERY
  etc.
  
• OP marks GroupPurchase as DELIVERY when main consignment received
  
• Tracking infos?
  
• Members (or OP?) declare receipt, LISTSTATE => COMPLETE when all items ITEMSTATE => RECEIVED
  

Not so much event, as that's a bit of a different beast. The idea came from the Video Games thread, where people are listing their PSN aliases, but you have to scroll through the thread looking for them. So info that is only relevant on that thread, but still useful and needed to be accessed. So a bit niche, but maybe similar to say if someone made a thread ordering t-shirts say. Not an event, but a prominent list that doesn't take up all the posts. Because scrolling through twenty posts of lists is boring.

might be useful for things like prospective buyers for group-buys (something that happens a lot on other forums I use)

Yes that.

This thread needs more UML.

Lists. So rather than having to quote and post a list each time, and having to find the last list posted, having an list attachment to a thread? So a poster can go straight to it and edit it at any time? So it's still in the thread, but separate from the posts, a bit like how polls appear currently.

Lists are messy, but I like a bit of messiness. I also think that it encourages participation--if everything is perfectly finished, it just ends up looking like the sort of room in which children are not allowed to touch anything. Lists bump threads and keep them active. OK, some lists are boring. Some are too long, but you can still have fun with them.

Obviously, if David programmes a different way of bumping threads and indicating participation, that's great. I wouldn't want to get rid of lists altogether, though.

Agreed, list bump is effective. Maybe if you add yourself to the list the forum would do an automatic post for you at the same time, that could be customised if wanted.

E.g:

Photoben has updated/added to list
Fuck yeah I'm IN!!!!! LOLZ

Or something like that.