Microcosm - 2nd Seedrs crowd-funding round

Dangerous back of envelope calculations going on there.

The revenue per user is per active user (look at the LFGSS front-page for an idea that active is not the same as registered, and bear in mind that registered users cost us nothing and active ones do).

The revenue per user is based on an average engagement level across the active users, and that isn't fully achieved in the early days of a community, and older communities beat those numbers... it comes over time.

The targets are goals for the end of the period, Dec 31st 2014, and not the start of a period, Jan 1st 2014.

Which means revenue calculations trail the number of sites and the number of users, by at about a year or so.

And the last point I'd make, is that revenue is not the same as profit. Costs increase to both acquire and serve those customers (sites) that come onto the platform.

The numbers are realistic, achievable, but not magic that suddenly sees us swimming in cash.

Yes, so it would help if the material set out the projections and assumptions clearly instead of leaving it to the investor to work out. There's just not enough there to make an informed decision. Clearly, I'm in the minority with that opinion.

Anyway: congratulations!

Carlos, Frank et al,

While you're at it, it would be useful see more granular detail on the Your Investments page, e.g.:

[]How many shares I own in the various companies/rounds etc.
[]A (suitably caveated) "value" of your investments would be nice, particularly where companies have had subsequent rounds.
[*]The nominee agreement is accessible from the account page, but I'd instinctively look for it on the investments page.

How will you compare investments made in different rounds if showing companies consolidated? I.e. 1k invested in Microcosm round one is ≈ 4k in round two. Makes later investors look "bigger" than earlier ones with the same or higher ownership % (although, obviously they are bigger on a committed capital basis).

Separately, is there established law, and/or have you received advice, on what happens to us, as investors in Microcosm via Seedrs as nominee, if Seedrs the firm were to fail? I know you are well capitalised etc., but what's the worst case scenario?

All very good suggestions. We are indeed going to add more information to the Your Investment page. It is more a matter of prioritisation than anything else. As for the value of an invest, that is a very tricky one. That's one we have wanted to add since day one but we will not add something like that unless we are very confident that it really reflects how the company is evolving towards success, and that is an extremely hard thing to measure. Rest assured though that we are doing a lot of research on that.

As for what would happen in the not-going-to-happen-while-I-have-a-drop-of-blood-in-me scenario of us going bust it is actually quite simple. Your shares are clearly marked as belonging to you and out of the reach of any creditor (same with money you deposit in our account, which is held in a segregated client money account) so, either we would pass the nominee responsibility to someone else who we believed would represent your best interests or, if that wasn't possible, you would just hold the shares directly as a shareholder.

Basically, regardless of what happens and of the exact structure, your shares are yours and will always continue to be (unless you pass them on to someone), regardless of wether Seedrs succeeds or not.

93%

I still know nothing about SEIS - what does it actually mean? I get back some tax money?

I just throw spreadsheets at my accountants and they tell me what tax to pay.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/seedeis/ and http://www.seis.co.uk/ are pretty good on it.

I found an article that was ace on it that seedrs linked on twitter - one about how high rate tax payers could have all of their investment paid back by HMRC, and more if they had capital gains tax to pay or something? I think in the Telegraph, around the time of Glentham Capital Limited, mayboe one of the Seedrs guys know which it was...

Can someone rich please throw another £6k at this so I can get on with some work and stop F5ing?

Thanks.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/seedeis/ and http://www.seis.co.uk/ are pretty good on it.

I found an article that was ace on it that seedrs linked on twitter - one about how high rate tax payers could have all of their investment paid back by HMRC, and more if they had capital gains tax to pay or something? I think in the Telegraph, around the time of Glentham Capital Limited, mayboe one of the Seedrs guys know which it was...

Also http://www.seedrs.com/seis

Two minutes left to raise it all in two hours, who's got £5400 lying around?

After reading the SEIS stuff I raised my investment (still quite small) by 150%, it's not huge but more than a cheap punt now.

Now I just need to wait for Velocio to make me a millionaire...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/seedeis/ and http://www.seis.co.uk/ are pretty good on it.

I found an article that was ace on it that seedrs linked on twitter - one about how high rate tax payers could have all of their investment paid back by HMRC, and more if they had capital gains tax to pay or something? I think in the Telegraph, around the time of Glentham Capital Limited, mayboe one of the Seedrs guys know which it was...

This? It's been in my todo list for a while now..
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100021654/where-high-earners-can-still-get-98pc-tax-relief-and-guaranteed-gains/

That's the problem for me - reading about financial schemes does my head in.

94.7%

+1 ^^.

So after putting in what I needed to stop my original investment being diluted I decided to put in the rest of what Seedrs allows me to based on my net assets.

Just need the faster payment to get there in time now (crosses fingers).

Shall we take bets on the finishing time? I bet 5 shares on 1148.

I'm pretty sure I don't pay Capital Gains tax, so:
** If you didn't realise gains last year and make an investment during the 2013-14 tax year, SEIS and related reliefs allow you claim up to: **

64%
of your investment back if the startup succeeds - and you pay no CGT when you sell your shares

86.5%
of your investment back if the startup fails - significantly reducing any losses you incur when investing in startups

So, somehow I can get at least half my money back win/lose? That's mental. Maybe I should put in more?

either we would pass the nominee responsibility to someone else who we believed would represent your best interests or, if that wasn't possible, you would just hold the shares directly as a shareholder.

I actually went off and read the nominee agreement (!) and I see where you can appoint an alternate nominee. Water under the bridge now, I guess, but a belt and braces approach would have been to give investors the right to appoint an alternate nominee and/or take direct ownership of the shares in the event Seedrs defaults on its obligations etc.

No doubt none of this will ever matter, but good fences make good neighbours etc.

D'oh. Didn't realise I have to put money in the seedrs account first. Waiting...

I am astounded at the speed with which this round has nearly closed.

If I'm 'waiting for the deposits to clear', have I definitely got that stake (assuming the transfer clears within the 2 day window)? Or can someone else take the stake if they have the cash in their account?

Right, so it's not just half the investment back, it's 64-86% of the investment as tax relief, ie. it just reduces your income tax bill by reducing your taxable income.

http://www.seedrs.com/seis

yup, although if you've already paid the tax (PAYE for example), I'm assuming that HMRC will send you a cheque.

Also, you have to claim the first bit to get the later bits (AFAIK)

As far as I understand it yes.

So if the company fails you get 100% of your investment off your tax bill which actually equates to 20-40% in cash.

It says up to 86% if it fails unless you are paying CGT, then it's 100.5%?

If I'm 'waiting for the deposits to clear', have I definitely got that stake (assuming the transfer clears within the 2 day window)? Or can someone else take the stake if they have the cash in their account?

Wondering the same thing.

96.7%

Hippo - I stand corrected