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Great story, I'm looking forward to seeing a beautiful bike.
First thing I though of when you were describing your struggle to identify the component set was, "Is Ole still alive? Could you contact him and ask him?".
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-296533.html
He might like to hear that you are trying to replicate his 'impossible hour' machine, he might even remember the components on the bike, it was after all a momentous occasion in his life.
Good luck with sourcing the rest mate. Subed
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Good luck Kal. Is this project No. 2 now on the go?
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the parts u r after can be bought easily:
here is the seatpost in question for an ok price
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Super-Record-fluted-SeatPost-27-2mm-70s-for-Columbus-SLX-Tubing-/121162462736?pt=US_Seatposts&hash=item1c35d87610http://rover.ebay.com/roverimp/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?pub=5574889051&toolid=10001&campid=5336525415&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]
its also on ebay us in NOS for 450 dorrar.
a low flange front hub 28h (yes not ti but not al sr were ti's)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Campagnolo-Super-Record-low-Flange-Track-Hub-28-h-/281138907317?pt=US_Hubs&hash=item41752f48b5http://rover.ebay.com/roverimp/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?pub=5574889051&toolid=10001&campid=5336525415&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]http://rover.ebay.com/roverimp/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?ff3=2&pub=5574889051&toolid=10001&campid=5336525415&item=281138907317&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]
pair of 36h low flange
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Record-Low-Flange-Track-Hubs-/121165931534?pt=US_Hubs&hash=item1c360d640ehttp://rover.ebay.com/roverimp/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?pub=5574889051&toolid=10001&campid=5336525415&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]http://rover.ebay.com/roverimp/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?ff3=2&pub=5574889051&toolid=10001&campid=5336525415&item=121165931534&mpt=[CACHEBUSTER]crank: if pre 72 151 bcd if post '72 i's 144, should be easy to find too.
nice project
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Thanks for your help, but:
the parts u r after can be bought easily:
here is the seatpost in question for an ok price
Is too big at 27.2, and it doesn't have the world/globe logo as pictured in SR #4100 group.
its also on ebay us in NOS for 450 dorrar.
Is too skinny for my 27.0mm seat-post dia.
a low flange front hub 28h (yes not ti but not al sr were ti's)
pair of 36h low flange
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Record-Low-Flange-Track-Hubs-/121165931534?pt=US_Hubs&hash=item1c360d640eHere's the thing, my target was to replicate his build as much as possible to the exact spokes number, or don't do it at all. I know it's impossible but at least I get the major parts correct, so we can leave out the spokes or the spoke nipples he used at the time.
His wheels are both 32h, I know because I was really fussy about getting near replica so I counted those spokes, so your 28 and 36 ones, especially not Ti, are not suitable.
About the crank, I did find 151 on eBay and currently watching it, but I'm still not sure if it's the same one though. For all I know his crank could have Ti chainring bolts and Ti crank bolt.
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I also just have to leave this here too:
also.
make a nice cup of tea and sit down on your couch with your arm around the frame and watch the impossible hour. it's well worth it.
The Impossible Hour - YouTube
the guy that made the film is still very much around. he's commenting the tour in tv.
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Yes, I have watched that utube video 30,100 times!
But thanks for posting the picture. You gave one piece of important information, that the pic from Cinelli book above is his 2nd attempt to break the hour record in 1974. So the SR track groupset from that '73 catalogue is the correct one.
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I saw that frame for sale, was very tempted to get it as I have the matching road frame. Re. the seatpost, that fluting looks deeper than normal Campag fluting - the 1960's and 70's are the age of drillium and modifying your own components, so it may not be a stock item. Also with Campag, there was no difference (AFAIK) between Nuovo and Super Record cranks - just the rings were different.
Good luck, will be following your progress! -
Anyway, frame's arrived several hours ago and there's another problems. See plural there:
- I know there's something wrong with this pic:
Hint: The Fork
No, you're eyes not playing with you. It's bent! The fork is bent!
There's a dent on a top-tube! About 15mm width and 1mm deep. I know it won't affect functions at all but it's visible and I know it's there. Nice, really nice! I did ask the seller twice whether there's any dents/dings at all, he confirmed twice there were none.
And another thing, the left dropout is bent! He told me just to straighten it with plier. Excellent!
Contacted the seller, tried to keep calm and see what solutions he'd offer me. I was calm until he blamed the courier saying they didn't handle the parcel correctly. Yea right! The seller himself didn't really package the frame safely. He put the frame loose inside the box and bubble-wrapped it single layer. And no "fragile" signs at all on the box.
Still trying to figure out the best solutions.
- I know there's something wrong with this pic:
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I saw that frame for sale, was very tempted to get it as I have the matching road frame. Re. the seatpost, that fluting looks deeper than normal Campag fluting - the 1960's and 70's are the age of drillium and modifying your own components, so it may not be a stock item. Also with Campag, there was no difference (AFAIK) between Nuovo and Super Record cranks - just the rings were different.
Good luck, will be following your progress!Thx for not buying it ; )
I think it's not deeper, it's just the effect of the photo/lighting. Or I could be wrong. Either way, 2-bolt + long/full fluted + Globe logo + 27.0mm SR post is very very hard to find. I will use half-fluted with campag script one instead.Also, thanks for the info on the crankset. I thought so too until I found the item numbers on both.
Why would you differentiate the serial on NDS crank? It led me to believe they are two different cranks.Also, are you going to get Cinelli M71 pedals? Also known as the Widowmaker. That's what he used in the failed 1972 attempt, and I think would be a 'cool' piece of history to incorporate.
The pedals he used on that "pinky" photo don't look like a M71, yes? Because it's got cages and straps.
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Such a shame after all the effort you've gone to with your research and time. Although I can imagine how frustrating this is, I would double check with the seller that you can't come to a compromise whether that is a discount. Also either way I would take screen shots of the listing if it is still available to view, as this could help your case if you were to open one through ebay. It seems clear to most of us that he is in the wrong, so if you can clearly provide enough supporting material (like the image in the first post with dodgy fork) then you stand a good chance. Again it is a real shame, but hopefully not a total loss as you don't know what's around the corner bike wise.
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The damage is probably repairable, but also quite costly... Seriously doubt that this is down to the courier. Has he offered you anything in terms of compensation?
I bet it does but it just pissed me because he obviously lied to me. Anyway, he suggested me to send back the fork and he can either unbend it or send me a non-Benotto fork. So I said that's not a good solution. Regarding the top-tube he said he can't do anything about it.
Such a shame after all the effort you've gone to with your research and time. Although I can imagine how frustrating this is, I would double check with the seller that you can't come to a compromise whether that is a discount.
You bet pal! I spent a whole week doing my research and endless parts hunting, day and night, only to find out that the frame is flawed! I paid through PayPal but not eBay, but I am 100% protected. Triple checked that with PayPal before completing the transaction. Unfortunately there's no NDS pic on the listing, only DS, head-tube, and seat-stays. Come to think of it, it seems he's deliberately didn't take pics on these sides, which makes me even more disappointed!
So after listening on what he has to offer I proposed my solution.
Since I am 100% protected by PayPal I can always return the frame to him and get a full refund including the postage cost I paid him to get the frame to me. He will also have to give me money to ship the frame back to him. OR..
To give me partial refund/compensate me for these damages. I quoted him the price of a new fork that I found on eBay, not track fork though, and an estimated price to get the top-tube undented.
Anyway, what amount of money £ do you guys think is fair if he chose to compensate me?
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Depends on what you paid for it and what it will cost to better the damage...
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@lynchman: the frame is ££ + £60 shipping to UK. Well I haven't really found the cost of undenting a top tube but there's a forumonger here knows how to do it if only he has access to a bench vice. The fork I found is brand new but road fork, costs £70.
@ncjless: haha. Thx pal! Let's hope that's not gonna happen soon.
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Ah man, what an ass hole. Out him so no one on here goes through such an ordeal.
Personally I would be so upset by this treatment and actual appearance of the frame. However, I don't know anybody that makes their dreams happen without some bumps in the road and reaching the dream after travelling so far far will make it all the more rewarding.
Don't loose heart, get some compo and out the seller.
CheBeef
pharoahsanders
Mr.C
drøn
Lynchman
NickCJ
jambon-
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About
Benotto: The Impossible Hour - The Impossible Project
Posted by
@kal_yxo
(gotta warn you, this is a long post)
Greetings,
I've been longing for quality Italian Track frame for sometime now but never able to afford it. Colnago, De Rosa, or the Cinelli SuperPista (really like this one) are all above my budget sadly. Knowing this I learn to love my current bike and even bought Cinelli book just to fulfil my craving.
Upon turning the pages I found this Benotto track bike that was used by Ole Ritter to break the hour record back in 1968. Cinelli designed the curved fork, hence the Benotto is discussed in the book. I never really have any interests on Benotto due to its known failure, so I moved on. However I kept thinking about the bike and kept coming back to that page. I admit I'm slightly biased because Benotto is like my middle name only with one "T", thought it'd be cool to have a bike with my name on it. Here's Ole Ritter's' featherlight Benotto that he rode on the impossible hour. Tried the pinky thing and almost broke my finger
Then I did another research and found that these failures are associated with Mexican-made Benottos, not Italian. Gave me warm feeling knowing this! Plus, Redeemer's Benotto is soo purdy I can't take my eyes off her (Pic 1, Pic 2). So I thought why not, this is after all an Italian frame and it's a track bike! Should fill the void in my heart. To the net we go.
I've encountered the first problem, the frame unfortunately is rather rare to find, bummer! Last time listed on eBay.it ended on 13 Aug. I didn't even know whether it's sold or not, so I contacted the seller. Two days passed and received no reply, was ready to give up hope and then I got an email from the seller. He said it didn't sell and still available! I couldn't stop smiling.. So I asked the regular questions, dents, bents, dings, etc etc, where it's made and what tubing. There's no problem with the frame, straight and true. He said it's made in Italy with Columbus tubing (don't know how he knows it). So I made an offer but he's quite persistent and gave me no discount at all, well no biggie. The frame was on its way last friday. Here's a pic from the listing: Seeing this pic and above I notice the fork is almost the same! Smooth curved fork. Getting more excited now!
While waiting I was deciding on how it should get built. I know that it has to have full Campagnolo Pista groupset but which one? C-Record, Super Record, or Record? I was weighing towards C-Record because I have most of the groupset already but then it'd look too flashy on the frame. Then saw the pic above and it hit me, there's no other way than to build it exactly like that. Back to the drawing board!
I began another research on Ole's bike and its components but found nothing on the net. That picture and the time of the event was the only clues I have. So I checked all Campagnolo catalogues prior the event in 1968, that includes 1967, 1969 but I extended the search until 1971, and 1973. After several hours mismatching parts I found that 1973 is the best match. Now to figure out which track groupset: Record or Super Record. Both group are identical except SR has Ti axles and bolts. Then I saw his seatpost was fluted, which is a major tell, so there's only one possible answer and that's the Super Record track group 4100.
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But then it doesn't make sense because according to the book that bike was from 1968, which let him broke the hour record. However fluted seatpost, according to the catalogues, did not exist until 1973. So there're two possible explanations: Cinelli has got their fact wrong or Campangolo made that prototype seatpost for him. Heck, either way I'm building it with SR groupset.
Now I'm a man on mission, and impossible one I'd say because it turned out that finding Super Record Track parts are rather difficult and almost impossible. Reasons:
Then I told myself that I have to stop being so anal about it. So that's it, my mission to build it period-correct was over, that was quick. But I still will build it with full SR track groupset and try to be as period-correct as possible. In my defence, Ti axles snap anyway ; ) Saved me a lot of money there.
That's it for now, will continue later. I do apologise for the long post.