For Sale: Raffle: Level NJS Track Frame + Fork + NJS Super Deluxe Headset + NJS R9400 BB

err, 67 & 68 is actually reserved by SuperMario. I'll give him a day. He posted and PMed yesterday too but I didn't reply until today so I assume he's serious. Would you like any other numbers?

Lets this done.

Here is some inspiration. Look how happy he is.

you can almost see tears in his eyes! But daim that Level looks good!

Your looks better!

Careful, I might withdraw the raffle just because you temp me.

just kidding guys

Hi - will take 49 if it's still available - can you pm me payment details?
thanks

I'll take 19.

Hi, I would like to buy number 75.
Please send me PM with pay details.

I can't pm you. Email me

probably because im fresh at lfgss :) so im sending email

Hi - I'll take 62 please.
Could you PM me the payment details.
Cheers.

Woah, I had not seen this thread... but if I had I would've shut it down.

LFGSS does not do raffles except when proceeds go 100% to charity, non-profits, etc.

This one can now conclude, but to anyone else who thinks they're doing this... nope, you are not. Raffles are regulated, and have to comply to certain rules. They are a form of gambling, and details can be found here: http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/gambling_sectors/lotteries.aspx

As a consequence, for any party who expects to hold a raffle... if you are a private entity you should hold a licence issued by the gambling commission.

There are exceptions, and it's basically if you are a community society or non-profit of a certain size and can account for it in a way that is auditable and verifiable in future.

Exceptions are written here: http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/gambling_sectors/lotteries/getting_a_licence-what_you__n/do_i_need_a_licence/circumstances_in_which_you_do.aspx

But no exception permits an individual to sell something using a raffle as the vehicle to do so.

In fact, this is pretty off-base... and if anyone tries to do raffles without meeting the criteria you will risk being banned for it.

And to the OP, you had better have some very neutral witnesses as you've taken money from a lot of people with no proof that any of them stand an equal chance of "winning" the frame and fork.

Sorry to rain on the parade... I should've caught it a lot sooner.

So basically is it okay or is it not? What's up with raffles that's been going on for the last couple of months? I'm quite sure they're not 100% for charity.

And I will invite as many people as I can to come and witness the draw. I'll need at least 10 people and I will record the process to be then uploaded to a video-sharing site.

And by the way my raffle has been up for 2 months now and no complaint nor warning all this time?

So basically is it okay or is it not? What's up with raffles that's been going on for the last couple of months? I'm quite sure they're not 100% for charity.

It really is not OK.

In fact... PayPal don't permit raffles either and can shut the account and return all money or seize it all.

If this was still inside the 60 days of taking the first payment I would be very strongly advising you to return all of the money and accept that you'll sell it for a lower price.

You cannot do that now, the ship has sailed.

Raffles, when unregulated, can cause real issues for this site, for PayPal, and creates a hell of a lot of liability for you the seller (you can be sued under civil proceedings by individuals and criminally by the gambling commission on the basis of fraud).

And if the raffle you mean recently refers to the one by Apollo on behalf of the LCEF, you'll note that proceeds 100% went to a non-profit society to support couriers in London who have been taken out off their bike (and out of work) by circumstances beyond their control (road traffic incidents mostly). So the existence of 1 raffle, which sought permission and investigated the gambling commission rules beforehand, does not imply that raffles are acceptable.

And I will invite as many people as I can to come and witness the draw. I'll need at least 10 people and I will record the process to be then uploaded to a video-sharing site.

You should finish it now you've started.

Yes sharing a video which clearly shows the selection will help to reduce the risk to you by demonstrating that the selection is random. Be sure to include on the video a pre-draw check that the items to be drawn are all random, include all participants, and is fair and neutral.

And by the way my raffle has been up for 2 months now and no complaint nor warning all this time?

I'm not omnipotent, and no-one had reported it... but now I noticed it, and whilst I tend to ignore un-reported things... this one actually creates legal liability.

Finish what you've started... you can't cleanly fix it now... but make sure you do the draw with extreme transparency and clearly documented.

I will of course finish it if you think it's okay and safe to proceed, HOWEVER, I am willing to refund all payment's made.

Here's what, I will write the name down on each raffle tickets in front of forumongers/witnesses that will attend the draw. I will ask one of them, or even more, to record a video of the whole process from writing down their names up to the drawing process itself.

I will definitely make it 100% as transparent as possible. Would that be okay then? I don't want to break any law as clearly I have no idea what I'm actually doing. I was just following what the rest have been doing.

AGAIN, I'm willing to refund all the money if I am indeed breaking the law.

The risk and liability is predominantly yours individually. If you are beyond 60 days it's not possible to refund via PayPal... are you?

If you can perform the draw with transparency and support from all of the people who bought tickets... then go ahead.

I guess you need to determine whether the people who purchased tickets are really happy with the situation and happy to proceed... because the liability and risk you face is in their control.

It's really your problem to now solve.

95% of the payments are made through gift option so I can always gift them back their money. Not entirely a refund but I can sort of give them money because obviously gift payments are non-refundable, aren't they?

I'm sorry to have thrown the monkey wrench in. I think you'd do best addressing those who bought tickets rather than me.

A hundred potentially illegal raffles happen every day, your risk is 100% linked to whether your buyers are happy. If you find they're not... I would u-turn very quickly... otherwise, proceed with their blessing.

I really needed to post just to make sure no-one copied you. Finish what you've started if your buyers are happy.

And if the raffle you mean recently refers to the one by Apollo on behalf of the LCEF, you'll note that proceeds 100% went to a non-profit society to support couriers in London who have been taken out off their bike (and out of work) by circumstances beyond their control (road traffic incidents mostly). So the existence of 1 raffle, which sought permission and investigated the gambling commission rules beforehand, does not imply that raffles are acceptable.

And nope, not Apollo. It was Pistofski's

I'm sorry to have thrown the monkey wrench in. I think you'd do best addressing those who bought tickets rather than me.

A hundred potentially illegal raffles happen every day, your risk is 100% linked to whether your buyers are happy. If you find they're not... I would u-turn very quickly... otherwise, proceed with their blessing.

I really needed to post just to make sure no-one copied you. Finish what you've started if your buyers are happy.

I will PM all of them.

And nope, not Apollo. It was Pistofski's

Ah yes, but that was still a fundraiser for a third party.*

I just searched, and yup... this is the only raffle that isn't on behalf of some cause (rider down, charity, non-profit, association or the forum). All of the others asked first and fit some of the gambling commissions criteria that at least gave them a ground to argue that it counted as the same kind of raffle/tombola that you'd get at a school fair.

All bets are off when it's basically 100% a private sale though.

• Just looking back, if pistofski's thread was only part to the forum I missed that detail at the time. I should've said then. It clearly was the thin edge of the wedge if that is the case. My bad... I'll do better in future so that it never gets so far again.
  

Alright you've sent me the payment details but I've just come back onto the thread and #19 is taken now?