Can you help to identify these frames, bikes or parts?

Hi all

I haven't received this yet so cant check frame number, but thought i would try getting help on identifying it, the seller reckons it may not be a Gillott, and from what i can see on the net i kind of agree.

Ive been reading classiclightweights.co.uk and cant see any mention of the lugs or the rear chatter lea dropouts?

Any ideas anyone ?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16JHJHgE9n0yEYejBRTvvoF2mw~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16NHJG!E9nm3o)enBRTvvkPSbg~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16NHJGoE9nuQeSrfBRTvvl21HQ~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16NHJI!E9qSO8GHFBRTvvlkK2w~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16ZHJG8E9nyfoUByBRTvvl!d)g~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16dHJGQE9noMbUGIBRTvvlvpKw~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16h,!)sE9swmcNJIBRTvvkhEZ!~~60_57.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r3k002/Gillott/$T2eC16hHJG8E9nyfp-L(BRTvvot-1!~~60_57.JPG

Thanks for any help.

Hilary Stone may be able to help, this is his kind of thing.

BTW : I like that frame holder/support.

Ok thanks, any idea how i can contact him ?

Yes the stand is great, the seller sold this aswell and got about £180 for it from what i remember.

He's rather well known, just type his name into google and you'll find his website.

Ok thanks.

looks like it has a 'Fleur De Lys' on the fork that Gillott were known for

integrated headset and rear drop outs look 1940s/50s to me

the frame actually looks more similar to my old Bates BAR (minus cantiflex tubes and forks) than an 1940s gillott I used to own

is there a frame number on the forks?
does it match any on the frame?

is it worth pming gillottrider on here?

Ok thanks guys, will pm gillottrider now.

Not received it yet so will look for a steerer tube number when i get it.

It's lovely, whatever it turns out to be!

integrated headset and rear drop outs look 1940s/50s to me

I'd say more 30's/40's The mudguard eyes and rear dropouts are a bit like a 1930's Claud Butler of mine.
The "british made" bottom bracket shell is the same as the one on my father's late 40's Gillott - 1947 IIRC
Splendid frame though very nicely filed/feathered lugs show the work of a decent builder - there's a surprising array of brazed on bosses for a 531 frame of that vintage.

Thanks Rik ;)

That's no Gillott (I have 2).
Nice frame though.
Lug shape is wrong. Gillott's hand cut lugs came in 3 styles; Spearpoint (with a rare version with windows called Connoisseur), Fleur de Lys and the rare curly.

But also details like pre-war style 'guard eyes and drop out shape make it something else.
You could try Mark Stephens (google him + Gillott) he's the VCC marque enthusiast and has > 30 Gillotts, he's got a Flickr full of them, he knows a good deal about other marques from that period.
Obviously a quality frame.

Looking at something badged up as a pinarello (treviso?). However, it's stickered as 653, and there are no cut-outs on the lugs or pantographs on the fork crown so I assume it's not. However, it does look like a very nice frame - sharp lugwork, smooth sloping fork crown, fastback seat stays. Seems like a steal at £350 with a 1989-91 chorus group. Any ideas?

Thanks absurdbird, already emailed mark, he just replied with "its not a gillott builder" ;)

^^ Alfie - Have you considered Razesa (sp?)
IIRC they made the Pinarello Banesto (Indurain replicas) from 653

Well, the price just dropped to £275, so I pulled the trigger anyway. The banesto looks a bit nicer than this frame, tbh; google images shows that it was still pantographed and a bit more ornate in places. Here are the photos from the listing (I'm a selfish git so I was keeping it to myself before i bought it...)
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r572/hifihangar/VINTAGE%20PINARELLO%20TRAVISO%20RACING%20BIKE/e1690c75-95c3-469e-8dd1-488ccdc6900b.jpg
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r572/hifihangar/VINTAGE%20PINARELLO%20TRAVISO%20RACING%20BIKE/eef739bf-ec06-4b51-8fc0-929448d4a3b6.jpg
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r572/hifihangar/VINTAGE%20PINARELLO%20TRAVISO%20RACING%20BIKE/225e61ad-b3ff-4b7a-aa9d-1d07414fc184.jpg

Good buy at £275 but that downtube decal is a bit suspect.
when you get it, check the BB thread - if it's BSA I think you can be pretty certain it's an aspirational pinarello - not a problem as it's obviously a decent bike and it'll be a bit of fun trying to work out who it is actually made by!

What do you think of the reynolds decal? It might just be the photo, but it looks a bit dodgy as well. I'm not bothered though, it's a nice group/wheels, the frame holds them together and at £275 anything more is a bonus. Some photos I missed:

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r572/hifihangar/VINTAGE%20PINARELLO%20TRAVISO%20RACING%20BIKE/RACER4.jpeg

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r572/hifihangar/VINTAGE%20PINARELLO%20TRAVISO%20RACING%20BIKE/2d846aa6-c785-4744-8f8c-0279b5ea64f3.jpg

The rear mech has been replaced with 105, which I think is why it was so cheap - it was listed as having a 105 group :)

Probably a respray & replacement 653 decal... most builders would clearcoat after stickers - doesn't mean it's fake 653 though....

I suppose if you were going to put a fake tube decal on something you were stickering as a pinarello, it would columbus.

^ exactly. The detail photo's show a lovely Cinelli-style fork crown, nicely feathered lugs and Campagnolo dropouts, so it's definitely a high-end frame.
To my eye the headtube lugs look a bit fancy for an italian bike, I reckon it's a UK builder

Going to pick it up and ride it 50 miles home in a moment, so I'll be able to get a photo of the bottom bracket shortly, and tell you if my arse likes regals having ridden only flites for a few years.

Going to pick it up and ride it 50 miles home in a moment

Good man yourself

Doesn't the rear seat stay say 'cinelli' to anyone?

Don't want to get your hopes up, but it looks a bit like one to me.......I'd need to see it closer though...

Good point - and the fork crown's certainly Cinelli-esque too
Detailed pic of the seat-tube lug would be good