Casati Ellisse Due - £500ish road build

Ok, looking to build up this Casati Road bike for £500 give or take.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread97078.html

It will be used mostly for solo rides around the peak district, and the odd bit of fair weather commuting. Would like to get the best possible bang for my buck the priorities being durability and longevity, then weight.

Probably going to go for a compact chainset as mostly solo and up and down hills in the peak. Considering new Campy veloce groupset or SRAM Apex but also considering building up a mix of second hand parts to get the best possible value. Would prefer all silver to suit the frame but ultimately value for money wins, and it seems to me SRAM parts are the cheapest second hand especially.

I won't unfortunately get the chance to test out the groupsets and decide which one suits me best as I don't really have any friends who ride on the road and I am not cheeky enough to pretend i am going to buy a bike so I can try a bunch out.

Wheels I was considering Campy Khamsins, available for just over a ton, V-sprint Mach1 on Mich road wheels £119, or heavily reduced Shimano rs30's for £130.

Looking for advice on all of the above options. Thanks for reading!

I won't unfortunately get the chance to test out the groupsets and decide which one suits me best as I don't really have any friends who ride on the road and I am not cheeky enough to pretend i am going to buy a bike so I can try a bunch out.

Are you that happy to risk buying a shifter just because you don't like to waste the staff at Tesc... EvanSurgery time?

SRAM is no longer value for money the moment you realised you don't get on with them.

Seriously go to a big bicycle shop, test ride a couple to find out which you like the best, you have nothing to lose doing that.

Fair enough, I probably should, I have done similar with outdoor and climbing gear before though and I go all red and fidgety because it feels dishonest. I guess I will just grin and bear it knowing that in the end it will mean a bike that suits me better in the long run.

How do you feel about buying a full new low end groupo e.g. veoloce or apex, as opposed to building it up second hand. I don't mind spending the time finding good deals if it means I will get a genuinely better bike for the price at the end of it.

Just says you're on a C2W scheme and was looking for a road bike in your size with either SRAM or Campag, ruling out Shimano.

Going to try out some grouppos this weekend.

Looking on Ribble today though and if you spend £100 before the 21st of Dec you can get £50 of a groupset in January. They currently have Campy Khamsin wheelset for £103, which has great reviews, could then get a Veloce group for £300 and would just need contact points and would be good to go. Doing my sums it seems even buying second hand bits I will end up spending pretty much the same amount so I'm tempted! Any thoughts, sound like a good deal?

i have built up campag 10 speed groupsets with older chorus record and centaur for the price of new veloce. The thing is, some people say (and im not sure how accurate this is) that the drip-down effect of technology over the years makes 2012 veloce better than 2005 record which may be true but its still good quality stuff...

The Casati is awesome but it deserves an italian groupset to go with its italian heritage...

my experience is that a 2nd hand campag group costs:

record shifters: 90
centaur/chorus brakes (non skeleton): 30/40
compact centaur chainset: (make sure you buy ultra torque, NOT power torque, see google for why): 120ish with 25 for new bearings if needed
new super record BB cups are around 15/20 quid
chorus front mech: 20/30
centaur/chorus rear mech: 80?

so 360ish plus Fulcrum 7/khamsin wheels for the winter and then invest in a nicer pair of hoops when you are a bit more flush...

Bear in mind the difference between the higher end and lower end campag is usually thing like how many gear you can go down/up in one stroke of the shifter.

Lower end campag go down one cog per shift, whether higher end campag go down three cog per shift.

My old Centaur go down 5 cog (and now 10 with modifications) with one shift but the newer shape one just go down one.

I've got Campag Veloce and Khamasins.....which I got from Ribble. I'd say that deal they have at the moment is a good one to take advantage of.

Khamasins are pretty heavy but seem very strong so reckon they are what you are looking for.

Veloce is a decent groupset and if you can get it for £250 that's a bargain. I've got two of them.

You can usually pick up saddles, stems, seatposts on here pretty cheap. (I've got some spare so if you're interested PM me).

I don't know what speed groupset you're looking for but I have a complete 9 speed Veloce group, in silver, which is barely used which I've been looking to sell. PM me if you're interested. Before the days of compact chainsets though, so you're looking at 39/53 rings...

Thanks for the input guys, I have a bit of news.... I have agreed to buy a 2013 Shimano Sora groupset! Now allow me a few lines to defend myself:

Firstly, the groupset is new and only costing me £120, I can pick it up in locally aswell saving on any postage. Also the 2013 group has got proper up and down paddles behind the levers instead of the little thumb tab which is a bonus.

Secondly I owned a raleigh for 4 years with an old Sora groupo before it got nicked, I was lazy and clueless and never even cleaned it or tuned it, rode it most everyday and it was still going strong when it was taken.

Thirdly, it will get me on the road quickly, I should be able to ride it by middle of january instead of having to wait for a few more paydays. It will give me time to save enough to buy the groupset that this bike really deserves, perhaps this time next year, and with the sora being low geared (50/34 and 12/28) i will be able to whip it off and put it onto my fixed gear commuter to transform it into a touring bike if/when I need.

I still feel a bit guilty, but this frame could last 20 years so will see many different set ups in that time.

Bear in mind the difference between the higher end and lower end campag is usually thing like how many gear you can go down/up in one stroke of the shifter.

Lower end campag go down one cog per shift, whether higher end campag go down three cog per shift.

My old Centaur go down 5 cog (and now 10 with modifications) with one shift but the newer shape one just go down one.

that is the only REAL difference between all the gruppos out of campag IMO.. i have used record, chorus, veloce, centaur, xenon. the '06 record shifted no better or worse than the '10 veloce and was only a few grams lighter. i think campag have caught onto this and are handicapping their own stuff. the quickshift is a meh idea and obviously has been developed to set chorus and record above the others. that is why the pre-powershift centaur levers (ultrashift - new design) are commanding such a high price. the silly thing is that they had to spend money developing a shitter design than ultrashift! i am losing my love for campag despite using their stuff for 20+ years with shit like this.

Ok so I have bought a ton more stuff online and now almost got a full builds worth of stuff on the way, although nothing has arrived yet. I have gone for SUPER CHEAP options all the way, the total should come in under £500 including absolutely everything, will give me plenty of scope to upgrade in the future when I can afford it. After looking at the specialized Elite build on another Current projects thread I am interested in replacing the fork with carbon and go threadless for the headset/stem at some point in the future too.

Shimano R500 wheelset - Ribble - £68 - So cheap and decent reviews everywhere I look with most people paying £90
3TTT TDF ergo bars 42cm - planet x - £20 - got these because they are 230gms and a nice shape
Madison Prime Saddle - White - Ribble - £20 - great comfort reviews and price
White Deda cork bar tape and some cinelli gel pads - £10
Continental GP 4 Seasons 25c - Halfords - £50 (but free with vouchers) - Somebody ordered these and never picked them up so they "wanted to get rid of them" I happened to have won some Bonus Bonds at work and no other bike shops accept them, or else I would never have set foot in there!

So add all this to the Frame and Black shimano groupset and will be almost ready to build once it all arrives/picked up. Still need to get a stem, preferably black but not sure what length yet will work that out when the bars and frame arrive. Also will want some clipless pedals and shoes at some point in the near future. WIll put up a pic or two when finished, but pretty sure no one else will care, certainly won't be xposted to porn, functional bikes though perhaps...?

Some good deals there.

On your wheelset; the spline interface for shimano and campagnolo cassettes is different. Not sure if you knew. Ambrosio make problem solver cassettes (10 speed) for shimano hubs but with campa spacing however.

Edit, Nevermind! Missed that you were going for a shimano groupset :)

A few extra points to add:

I still need an Italian BB to fit the Sora groupset, I am not 100% sure what type I need, I THINK the cranks are 2 piece jobs but will work that out when I pick up the groupo on Sunday.

And the reason I chose the wheels over Khamsin is that the £95 deal for khamsins was only available with a campy freehub, best price for a shimano one was £120. Also the weight of the R500s is a shade under 1900 grams, just like the Khamsins, with apparently most of the weight in the hubs on the r500s meaning they feel lighter. The only thing most of the r500 reviews really complained about was the weight, the stiffness and especially durability were both supposed to be good, meaning in theory there shouldn't be too much difference in performance with the khamsins.

Need to get myself a stem for this but build but have a bit of a problem. I have got a black groupset, partly black wheels, black bars and a black seatpost lined up for the build, but I am really struggling to find a black quill stem that will suit at the right length (about 110mm). Would a silver quill look ok considering there is some chrome bits on the frame and it also will have silver rims? Or will it just clash and look nasty, was thinking of this?

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/STCIPIN/cinelli_pinocchio_quill_stem

System x sell black quill stems at a reasonable price, http://www.mobile.wheelies.co.uk/p52350/System-EX-Quill-Stem.aspx?utm_source=googleps

Coming from someone riding Campy Khamsin i can highly recommend them, great wheels, fast spinning, and bombproof, great value. Look nice too

Thanks for that loctez, I think I am going to take the stem of my commuter and use that for a few weeks until I am 100% sure what length I want.

Thanks amateratsu, in the end I chose Shimano R501 wheels, I managed to get them for £68 new, they weigh about the same as the Khamsins and are supposed to be pretty durable.

So I have everything at home or on its way in the post already except a stem and some road cycling shoes now, can't wait to get it all built up!

New life into the Casati! I think it's going to look very nice with the black parts.

Yeah I think it will look OK, I know it should really have a nice silver campy groupo on it but I can't afford it at the moment. It is definitely going to get ridden a lot though, I can't wait to get out on the roads again!