Tour de France 2013

I'll take that bet.. i think he needs a couple more years, and i think Contador will take him.

Why, is he a performance enhancer?

i think the vuelta showed the form he's still capable of.

Why, is he a performance enhancer?

tested positive for a vanishingly small amount of clenbuterol, used as a muscle enhancer. not blood doping..

^And the Vuelta the year before showed what Froome is capable of. I still think he could have won the Tour this year. Anyway, we will see.

tested positive for a vanishingly small amount of clenbuterol, used as a muscle enhancer. not blood doping..

I'll try to find the interview, I think Adoubletap posted it originally- the expert witness who the interview was with was called to the Clenbuterol case, and he said he had zero doubt that Contador was blood doping.

Here we go: http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden

So, an added dimension would be the "is he/isn't he", if Contador really puts the hammer down how much is him, and how much was in a plastic bag until that morning?

i find it very hard to believe that he would continue in the current climate, having served one ban already, and having had victories overturned as a result of it. maybe i'm naive, though...

I concur, especially seeing Armstrong have his 7 victories removed.

But- Contador got away with it, convicted of Clenbuterol for sure, but he avoided sanction for what he was really up to.

Anyway, doping thread>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It's not either/or. 60% heamatocrits might not be possible any more but some lesser doping probably is and probably still brings benefits.
There's no doubt that he has doped in the past and, like Valverde, his performances haven't dropped off, though he did lose the Tour to Evans.

But- Contador got away with it, convicted of Clenbuterol for sure, but he avoided sanction for what he was really up to.

is that true? he had a Giro and tour victory overturned, and is well known as a doper... it hardly seems to matter what it was exactly.

There's no doubt that he has doped in the past and, like Valverde, his performances haven't dropped off, though he did lose the Tour to Evans.

good point, and isn't that the argument - that there is less need to dope if everyone else has stopped.

i think Wiggins would have won that tour, i really don't see how Evans would have beaten Wiggins. I'm not an Evans believer, i'm afraid.

I'm putting a tenner on Froome to win the tour next year. I think he is being seriously underestimated.

tenner on froome doing great until a few stages left and tanking, same with wiggins. no idea who'll take it though.

Contador, I would have thought

I would find it really odd and quite bad form if a champion in any sport was not given the opportunity to defend a title. it seems disrespectful to the race itself, and i just think it will be really confusing for the world at large if Wiggins isn't riding for himself. it won't help to de-mystify pro-cycling in the UK, for example.

Froome really should fuck off to another team, i think. can't he see that they're just telling him what he wants to hear? Personally i don't think he has what it takes to win yet, anyway, and surely Brailsford feels the same. He lacks maturity, and Contador would always outfox and outride him. The Wiggins train i think could work quite well against Contador - as they have said, he can't jump off the front of Sky doing 450w and hope to sustain it, and Wiggins should be able to put decent time into Bertie in the time trials. Froome, on the other hand, will be very evenly matched to Contador in a time trial, and so will ultimately come off second best overall, IMO.

Yes, it's me.

Solid analysis methinks. Froome looked like Gollum when the cameras cut to him at SPOTY when Wiggins thanked his teammates, with leading the Tour his precious. It seems to be a messy situation: Sky what to have their cake and eat it. Vaughters has already 'complained' about them hoarding talent. History teaches us that teams struggle to contain two major GC contenders in a the entire squad, let alone a 9-man GT team, LeMond and Hinault being the most obvious example, and Roche/Visentini another.

Wiggins is the senior rider and the defending Champion, he can go for it if he wants. That said the parcours doesn't suit him so Froome is the more likely challenger to Contador.

. History teaches us that teams struggle to contain two major GC contenders in a the entire squad, let alone a 9-man GT team, LeMond and Hinault being the most obvious example, and Roche/Visentini another.
.

LeMond, Hinault and Roche all won the Tour. I think that is a 'problem' most teams would love to have.

Froome really should fuck off to another team, i think. can't he see that they're just telling him what he wants to hear? Personally i don't think he has what it takes to win yet, anyway, and surely Brailsford feels the same.

He's a great tugboat in the mountains though isn't he ;)

There could be some contractual goings-on if they leave it too late to confirm the #1 spot. Of course if Bradley is fit and up for it then he's the man (he wants to get on with it though, and stop playing at being Paul Weller) and they will want Froome to do the job he did this year. The problem is Froome might not accept this and prefer to go to a team where he will be #1.

However, I think you're right and strange as it may sound, Froome actually has equal chance of winning the tour by being Wiggo's wingman than he does going to a lesser team and still having to go it alone because of poor quality backup. You can't GC unless your team is good enough to keep you out of trouble in the first week.

Bradley Wiggins: No problem if Froome leads team at 2013 Tour de France

Dave Brailsford: We will see when we get there

Chris Froome 'responded by saying that as far as he is concerned, the team had assured him that he will be No1.'

Fiiiiiiight

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/dec/18/bradley-wiggins-froome-team-sky-tour

Plenty of shit to go down before either of them even make it to July 2013..

tested positive for a vanishingly small amount of clenbuterol, used as a muscle enhancer. not blood doping..

Still a banned substance.

Showed evidence of plasticizers as well though there's no proper test for that shizzle yet.

You can't GC unless your team is good enough to keep you out of trouble in the first week.

and Corsica is full of crack dens, strip clubs, midget tossing bars and other salubrious Pro bait... #lookout

Would be great to see both Wiggins and Cantador in the Giro. I'm sure a (not so) secret dream of claiming the Grand Tour Triple Crown is playing tricks in the back of the mind of both riders, let alone their team directors respectively. Should either triumph in Italy, expect any pre-season Tour de France strategies to be out the window…

History teaches us that teams struggle to contain two major GC contenders in a the entire squad, let alone a 9-man GT team, LeMond and Hinault being the most obvious example, and Roche/Visentini another..

History teaches us no such thing. It teaches us that, whilst it's difficult to manage the personalities, if you want to win, it's a big, big help to have strong stage race riders on your team. La Vie Claire won back-to-back Tours. Merckx had some really strong riders, who would have been team leaders on other, lesser outfits, riding for him. LA likewise, as did Indurain, as did Anquetil, Telekom 96 & 97 etc etc.

History teaches us no such thing. It teaches us that, whilst it's difficult to manage the personalities, if you want to win, it's a big, big help to have strong stage race riders on your team. La Vie Claire won back-to-back Tours. Merckx had some really strong riders, who would have been team leaders on other, lesser outfits, riding for him. LA likewise, as did Indurain, as did Anquetil, Telekom 96 & 97 etc etc.

So it's 'difficult to manage the personalities' is the polar opposite of 'struggle to contain' is it? I didn't say they wouldn't win, did I? I've already said earlier in the thread it's a great back up plan to have. But from the outside looking in there seems to be a power struggle and a personality clash. We've had the Twitter wars from the WAGs, the various controversies on the roads from last year's Tour, Wiggins having a pop at Froome in his latest book and Froome looking like he wanted to eat Wiggins' heart at SPOTY.

LeMond, Hinault and Roche all won the Tour. I think that is a 'problem' most teams would love to have.

I'm not saying its not, although Visentini might disagree! Roche's betrayal was down to finding out Visentini wasn't riding the Tour if memory serves, so wouldn't be there to help him win it, so he decided to nick the Giro from him. The trade in Sky from the outside was for Froome to helpm Wiggins win the 2012 in exchange for his help in 2013, and the noises coming from out of the camp up until now was to this effect, now Wiggins seems keen to have another crack at in, which means it might get spicy on the road

and Corsica is full of crack dens, strip clubs, midget tossing bars and other salubrious Pro bait... #lookout

This

I think froome earned a clear pop at it this year by supporting Bradders even though he wanted to zip off evey time he saw so much as a speed bump. I assume froome's dartboard has sideburns at home as well, there is no love lost between them that is clear but this is probably all to the benefit of Sky who will use the oneupmanship to their advantage. At least it bodes well for a more entertaining tour if the other teams start to sense a genuine shot. Not just Cadel getting all flustered over a puncture and the Sky train saying "we'll beat him anyway so lets av a breather".