Running red light - legal advice

as the old saying goes, if you've got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. don't think my question justified any hostility, so in the words of a man much wiser than myself...

stop being a moaning cum bucket,...shut the fuck up

all the nice things you said about that fucking smug cunt policeman?

simply trying to liven up a rather dull request for advise with a little foul language and humour. I humbly apologise.

the relentless monologue of self-involved grief and torment I have forced upon you was ill considered. next time I will think twice before allowing my wheels to cross that line, and more importantly I will think thrice about allowing the inanities of my struggle with the long arm of the law to enter the sacred grounds of your home via the support of your computer screen.

you're right, there is enough corn popping on this forum without me providing stimulus for the likes of you, oh dancing james.

stop being a moaning cum bucket,...shut the fuck up.

If you had fallen off your bike and landed over the line I'd appeal... But as James said you haven't got a leg to stand on

need to vary the insults nick to liven this up.

have you just been studying cum buckets recently or were you just on the phone to your mamma?

in terms of defence a)

bitch please

'i'm a student so i should be allowed to break the law without paying!'

i was behind a student the other day, in an SU shop i might add. He was pissing and whinging about having to pay the 'ridiculous' fee of 10p for a carrier bag. I managed to bite my tongue and only lol in his face about the irony of someone at a very expensive uni with economics in the title saying that the fee paying carrier bag model was ridiculous

is it good luck or break a leg when wishing well for RLJ?

Oh well life sucks doesn't it.

Pay up and move on.

I would imagine that the whole thing would depend on the wording of the offence- if it is something along the lines of "passing the stop line whilst the light is red" then you need to establish how they define "passing".

i.e. if you had your front wheel over the line but not the rear then you might be able to suggest that you had not gone past the line.

However, if you had both wheels clearly past the line then this would not be an option.

If you had fallen off your bike and landed over the line I'd appeal... But as James said you haven't got a leg to stand on

Also if you don't have actual legs to stand on you could say that's the reason for crossing the line and you were discriminated against

^^ Generally, with motoring, my understanding is that it is the front wheel that matters in cases like this.

The opportunity to have argued this was really at the time of the offence. Had you quite obviously stopped just over the line or were you still rolling? I regularly stop after the line at traffic lights, usually to hold onto railings, etc. and save unclipping.

he didn't mention it to me, and yeah you're right would probably be a waste of time. he was far too busy telling me how many cyclists he's** 'scraped off the pavement'.** I'd have believed him if he wasn't smirking when he said it!

Unless that's their standard line, it sounds like the smug cunt who chased after me in a police van last year for rlj (who also claimed I'd been trying to evade capture and speeding?!).

I went to the training session instead of a fine and guess who was there? Officer smug cunt, taking a photo on his phone of the gigantic queue of miscreant cyclists. >>>>>>>>>>>

You're asking the wrong question on the wrong forum.

Nobody here is qualified to help, and those that are probably won't help. Each case is going to be different, and vague opinion is no substitute for paid professional counsel.

If you are considering challenging the charge in court, you need to get representation, or be a self taught expert on the offence, the penalties, each and every possible mitigating circumstance.

If you can't afford counsel, and as you don't appear to have a scooby about the relevant legislation, statute and case law, just suck it up and pay, and keep an eye out for jobsworth pigs from now on.

^Heretic

OP should accept woefully poor advice from the forum and use "some fixie skidders on the interwebz think that me being over the line does not count, because I am a student and po po is bare jokes smug cunt."

If you're over the line, then there's nowt you can do about it sadly.
All the 'legal advice' here is absolutely right. You have no chance.
But there are issues about proportionality and the discretion that police officers always have about what action to take. What does the OP mean by "just over the line" does it mean a bit of the front wheel, half of the bike, all of the bike? Was there a reason for being just over the line? Was there a lorry or bus whose driver would not have seen you if you were behind the line? Had you made your intention to stop clear, with one or both feet on the ground (*)?
None of those considerations will get you off but it may be worth a polite letter complaint to the police, adding point "A) I'm a student" but not B) or C). I assume it was the City of London Police, if it had been the Met you could have copied the letter to your assembly member.

We have raised the issue of police discretion and proportionality at the Cycle Safety Working Group meetings with the police, particularly to do with the refusal of most police to enforce the same law against motorists who drive into ASL bike boxes. It is also extremely rare for any police to prosecute a motorist for being "just over the line". The police believe passionately that prosecuting cyclists who jump red lights is the most important thing they can do to reduce casualties. When a cyclist has clearly stopped just over the line that reasoning is harder to justify.

(*) Most police should be able to see that one or two feet on the ground was a clear indication of a cyclist stopping. Only a few of them will recognize the mechanical and spiritual purity of a track stand in the same situation.

We have raised the issue of police discretion and proportionality at the Cycle Safety Working Group meetings with the police, particularly to do with the refusal of most police to enforce the same law against motorists who drive into ASL bike boxes. It is also extremely rare for any police to prosecute a motorist for being "just over the line".

A spokesperson told me that in the past three years City Police issued 12 fixed penalties to motorists for entering ASZs unlawfully.

Yet in the same period it handed out just over 6,000 fixed penalties to cyclists for jumping red lights.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/24/safety-red-lights-cyclists

Anecdotal evidence is that johnny law don't like issuing TS10s for motorists who ignore ASLs as it's "disproportionate".

[quote]A spokesperson told me that in the past three years City Police issued 12 fixed penalties to motorists for entering ASZs unlawfully.

Yet in the same period it handed out just over 6,000 fixed penalties to cyclists for jumping red lights.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/24/safety-red-lights-cyclists

Anecdotal evidence is that johnny law don't like issuing TS10s for motorists who ignore ASLs as it's "disproportionate".[/quote]
The FOIA request response that I received from City Popo states that they make no distinction or record of ticket given for cars running red lights or passing the advanced stop line, given that it is exactly the same offence.

Notwithstanding the fact that there is no such thing as an Advanced Stop Zone, and certainly no offences relating to them.

Was there an advanced stop line ie a bicycle box?

If there was and it was occupied by a police car which entered the box after the light changed by overtaking you, it might be worth trying to appeal.

If not, don't bother, you will just waste time and more money.

Bicycle Cop Frustrated By Law - YouTube

The police are cunts and seeing as they've already caught all the rapists, murderers and thiefs they can concentrate on the important stuff.

If you're over the line, then there's nowt you can do about it sadly.

I'm not sure why the thread didn't end after this post. That's it. Tough. Now you know. Being a student is all about learning. Now, don't do it again.

Was it 'crossed the line' in 'I was stationary and slightly ahead of the ASL' or just across the line and rolling when the lights went red?

oh good, when the sun comes up and the decent people of the interweb rise a lot of excellent points and helpful advice start to accumulate.

I was both wheels over the line, track standing (not in my favour, i know) and waiting for the lights to turn.

first lesson learnt

The reason I felt some sense of injustice (much to many forumers disgust, it seems) is because the officer in question was standing at the pedestrian crossing on my left as I was waiting, and he waved me through the lights in a very confusing 'carry on' sort of gesture. I gave him a bewildered scowl and proceeded to edge past hime (assuming i was in his way or something) at which point he yelled stop.

I stopped - second lesson learnt

I attempted to reason with him, saying I was not going to proceed and that I only did because he waved me on, and he argued that I was already running through the lights and that he was waving me over to the side.

quite clearly on this occasion I will paying up.

the smugness came in the form of him trying to entertain me with tails of horrendous accidents, which was theatrical, insensitive, and totally unnecessary given the lack of severity of my crime. and also his boasting about how many fixed penalty tickets he gets given per day to hand out to the likes of me!

thanks for your helpful input

The police are cunts...

.

Got his name and number?

Files a complaint about his attitude.

Just double-checking that stopping when a po-po asks you to stop isn't a lesson learned? As in, stopping when asked by the police to stop you would always do so and the lesson learned is not reason with them? I'm confused.

what happens if you refuse to talk to them, give any details or pay? They arrest you for rljing? what happens if they did arrest you and you still refused to give any details? they'd leave you in a cell forever? Is it against the law, or is it just an offence? Since you havn't agreed to obey their rules why should they apply to you?

Bicycle Cop Frustrated By Law - YouTube

Bad grammar and comic sans, can't take that video seriously. :(