Lance Armstrong... greatest doper there was or ever will be

There was something in the USADA documentation where Ferrari said they'd stopped using Tenerife for a training base as there were too many people around there these days.

Too many 'clean' riders came along and ruined the scene?

Wiggins 'Teide is amazing, I wish I had known about it years ago'
Ferrai 'That scene is totally old, you should have been there in 1999. It was wild in those days'.

has this been resolved yet?

Yes.

pea

The Coming Confession?

The Coming Confession?

I really cant see it happening.....the Livestrong army still believe in their idol so why expose himself to further?

he'll probably sell his story for millions

Does this mean my Lemond Fillmore 2008 (before that nasty Mr Arsestrong forced Trek to drop Greg's line) is now worth $$$? Will not split.

The Coming Confession?

Trek already dropped him, all that left is Oakley.

And Nissan, Johnson Health Tech and SRAM.

Trek already dropped him, all that left is Oakley.

I know.

(They haven't asked for his shares back though, have they?)

quality stuff for all high horse folks.guys still a let down phoney tho.

I have to say the depth and extent of the corruption in cycling is starting to wear on me. We suspected just how bad it was but now it is being spelled out in intimate detail, the whole sorry, sordid tale being dragged kicking and screaming into the light.

And all this after a season of fantastic racing. It is the first year I've watched the whole season pretty much from beginning to end, and I loved all the racing. Of the early season classics Milan-San Remo and Paris-Roubaix (Boonen riding away was awe-inspiring) stick in the memory, and Paris-Nice, the first time I got really excited about the prospect of Wiggins winning the TdF. The Giro was excellent, even tho Cav got denied the red jersey by a single point. The Criterium de Dauphine a little pedestrian but another win for Brad. Then the Tour and the show of strength by Sky. And then such a dramatic Vuelta, and then going to watch 2 stages of the Tour of Britain go past.

And all the while my enjoyment of all the spectacle chipped away by the knowledge that so much of it could be a sham. Boonen riding away with 50k to go at P-R, amazing to watch but really? Froome and Wiggins in the mountains, Contador's incredible come-back ride in the Vuelta, believable?

And now all of this, all the astonishing details of corruption, bullying, political intrigue and cover-up. You start to think no-one is innocent, you either doped, or facilitated doping or turned a blind eye. You can only cling to the hope that now the peloton is riding so much slower than the bad days is indicative of a cleaner era....or just a much cleverer one.

As I said wearisome, and sobering, now a question mark over every performance I have seen, except for Cav's of course.

Cheating and professional cycling are so intertwined that you cannot seperate them, so there is always an element of not taking what you see at face value.

The last 20 years have seen rampant doping that's completely changed the way races are ridden, with a subsequent effect on tactics. The way races are ridden now is changing back, and the ridiculous, unbelieveable attacks are slowly becoming a thing of the past. It'll take time for riders to adapt, but there are signs that they are beginning to understand that varying tactics can earn them results.

I genuinely think the bulk of the peleton now are riding clean and the performances are credible. There are obviously still some who are clinging to their old ways, and as along as discredited active doping advocates like Riis, Bruyneel, Saronni and Ekimov are running teams, then there will be a some who won't change their ways, but the biological passport is slowly making the benefits of doping a thing of the past.

During this twenty year period there's been am almost complete lack of leadership at the highest level and that has to change. But turkeys don't vote for Christmas so maybe it's time for some with a genuine vision of how the sport develops to step up and wrest control of pro cycling away from the amateurs at the UCI.

C But turkeys don't vote for Christmas

great expression -

I've been thinking about what Taylor Phinney said and remembering how I used to rely on my own version of a 'finishing drink' when I was a courier - coca cola and a mars bar if I was tired and Ibuprofen if my back was playing up. Actually that was quite often my 'starting drink' too. It helped me do my job and I am guessing that is how a lot of cyclists are going to see it. Few of them have Phinney's talent, or his salary, and are not chasing glory but just trying to make a living, to avoid going back to being an apprentice welder or car salesman. It would be great if all cyclists had his idealism and ethics but, as Andy says, the real problem has been blood doping and without it cycling can return to what it was before - not clean but clean enough.

^^^^That view might be reversed if other sports strongly suspected of being the equal in doping terms begin to suffer a similar fate to cycling. Although there's a stigma attached to cycling, clearly rooting out culprits is an asset. Being the first to make a concerted effort at getting its house in order might be viewed as a pioneering move if others follow, through necessity or by influence. Perhaps a decent example is being set, which is easy to miss right now.

Gerrans at MSR, Hesjedal at the Giro and Martin at the worlds seem most plausible from the races that matter.

Contador, Rodriguez, Iglinskiy, Vinokourov and Gilbert I doubt.

On Boonen and Wiggins I have cognitive dissonance.

There's an article in the German magazine Der Stern this week in which they mention that Ullrich apparently gave a four-hour interview to them in 2008 disclosing all. However, after giving the interview he changed his mind and has up until now not allowed them to publish it.

• coca cola and a mars bar if I was tired and Ibuprofen if my back was playing up.
  
  

#marginalgains

Woah. Ferrari was running tax fraud/doping package deals for athletes so they could pay no tax on image rights contracts and pay him for drugs out of the proceeds

The Gazetta article on Ferrari

I hate Google Translate with an absolute passion. Here's a rather more grammatically tolerable article from cyclingnews.com:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gazzetta-reveals-scale-of-doping-and-money-laundering-under-dr-ferrari

Cheating and professional cycling are so intertwined that you cannot seperate them, so there is always an element of not taking what you see at face value.
.

Indeed.
Maurice Garin.

(Caught a train to 'win' the second Tour de France in 1904 after having won the first)

Ther's an article in the German magazine Der Stern this week in which they mention that Ullrich apparently gave a four-hour interview to them in 2008 disclosing all. However, after giving the interview he changed his mind and has up until now not allowed them to publish it.

Ullrich has recently said (or someone close to him) that he doped because it was the only way he could compete with Lance. Till I read everything about Lance/Bruyneel/USPS I had a certain amount of sympathy for dopers, empathising with a professional need to succeed, to earn a living and provide. But you see none of that desperation in Lance, just a really ugly side of motivation, a desire to be the best at all costs, to use people and throw them away, and to destroy those that stand up to you.

But there is only one Lance. There are plenty of dopers out there, put few dope and compete like he did, thank fuck. I watched those races in ignorance and admired the man, now I spit on him.

Ullrich has recently said (or someone close to him) that he doped because it was the only way he could compete with Lance.
.

Was this person who is close to him recovering from a serious head injury? That had made him mistake a balding Danish twat for Lance Armstrong?