League V Subs

This is the thread for subs to list themselves, and any substitutions to be announced.

As the league is based on a squad system you won't be able to just pick up a sub for 1 game, if someone can't make a game you just have to make do.

But you can make permanent substitutions (for example long term injury, someone moves away, gives up polo, doesn't like the team, whatever).

Once a player is subbed out they can't play for team again (to avoid abuses to the squad system). But they can sub in for another team.

Subs can be made at any point, up until the first game of the final fixture window. There are no further subs for the last 2 games (to avoid abuses of the squad system).

Subs should not be someone a lot stronger than the player being subbed out (to avoid abuses of the squad system) I'll allow some flexibility (for example no suitable subs available), but any controversial subs will need to be approved by the other Captains. I'll deal with that.

If you want to be added to the subs list, post here and I'll add you to this post.

Available Subs
Josh IDN (probably from November)
Mrak
Dub Kev later in year?
Vi
Beagle

Subs Made
Dragon Slayers - James Brown for Jono (from mid November).
Goons - Peter for missing 6th player.
Goons - Spikes for Jordan (from mid December)

Are teams with smaller squads (such as Fisted By Crack Badgers) able to pick up additional players via subs?

Yes, the three squads with 5 can pick up a player, but it does need to be a new-ish player, (so none of those on that subs list).

Fuck! I wish I'd realised subs worked like this, I would have just gone in the draft.

I'm aware this is a fail on my part.

Jordan needs a sub from December. Work out a deal with Ryan...

Otherwise I'm sure there will be other people who have to drop out.

Fuck! I wish I'd realised subs worked like this, I would have just gone in the draft.

I'm aware this is a fail on my part.

^ ditto

i suppose i could sub once or twice if needed.

no sandbagging Luca!

Fuck! I wish I'd realised subs worked like this, I would have just gone in the draft.

I'm aware this is a fail on my part.

To be fair I felt like this in the third league... Relying on subbing is unfulfilling IMHO.

subs will need to be approved by the other Captains. I'll deal with that.

This ^

and ...

Subs Made
Dragon Slayers - James Brown for Jono (from mid November).

I was not made aware of this in any way. And when the draft happened surely we should all have known that if you pick jono you are also picking jb. A very good reason for not picking jono was that he was going to be replaced with a much much weaker player / newb as you discussed. But now you are simply swopping in jb without any discussion or even acknowledgment that it would have swung the draft very differently. And every single subsequent pick. Sorry but i dont agree with this process.

B, I'm sorry if you feel you've missed out on something, but the the sub rule was clear in the proposal, and discussed on the planning thread at least once.

I've never discussed weaker/new player, just not "much stronger" (according to the proposal).

Unless you are suggesting that JB is "a lot stronger" than Jono, then this is a perfectly acceptable substitution, and doesn't need referring to the captains.

Once Max chose Jono he was free to choose whoever he wanted as a sub (it didn't have to be JB), as long as it didn't fail the "much stronger" criteria. The same applies for all other subs that may happen.

I dont want to start a war here but i even suggested we twin players. Todd wanted to be his own man in that instance (with jono) but you can see why it was a sensible suggestion. Its not really about weak or strong its about what was available to pick.
And as far as anyone and all were concerned on the night jb wasnt a pick. Now jono and jb are one player. Its a consideration that should have been available to everyone in the draft and wasn't. Same goes for mrak too i think.
In hindsight i think that all players should have been draft able. Ryan only gets 5, why could he not draft jb for example? Only because he hadnt spoken to him? Can he just add mrak now? Its a bit of a balls up i think. And the fact you write 'all captains must approve' and then fuck it off with a 'sorry'. Is a bit lame. Its seems that left unchecked, all rules are bendable.

JB wasn't a pick on the night no, he didn't want to be on the list, I'm not sure what's the issue you have with that. The same goes for Mrak. You can't force people to make themselves available. Max then went and talked to someone on the subs list, to be a sub, and they agreed.

Why can't Ryan (or the other players with 5) just pick up JB (or any other strong player) now? Because it would skew the teams, any 6th pick needs to be of a similar level to the other 6th picks, otherwise you could create an unfair advantage for a team. But Ryan can pick up Mrak, or any of the others on the list for Jordan.

Again, and I'm now saying this for the fourth time, the "all captains must approve" bit only applies if the player being subbed in, is "much stronger". I'm not sure how much clearer that can be.

If you don't like this specific sub, and therefore you think JB is much stronger than Jono, raise it now, and I'll take it to the captains for a discussion. If you don't, then accept the sub and we'll move on. It's pretty simple. You may well find yourself in the situation that you need a sub later in the year, so it's probably a good idea to build up some goodwill with the other captains.

If you don't like the rule, you could have raised it any time between the proposal going up, and the draft, not now. I can't change the rules now, as otherwise people would have picked differently in the draft. Max even asked for clarification on the exact ruling for subs before making that pick, as did others.

JB doesn't have a bike at the moment and hasn't played in 6 months (it'll be neat to see him back on court though).

Just to be clear I will get jono's bike as I am subbing for him. Agreed? Yes. Thank you... I wish. I am a lot weaker than most as well will practically be a new player. I've not been paying much attention but I was on the subs list all anyone needed to do was ask I would've said yes to anyone and everyone. If I was open to subbing for more teams like last year I would've preferred that but it seems that isn't the case.

brown, don’t under sell yourself. you were the mvp in europe back in 2009. never forget that mate.

JB wasn't a pick on the night no, he didn't want to be on the list, I'm not sure what's the issue you have with that. The same goes for Mrak.** You can't force people to make themselves available.** Max then went and talked to someone on the subs list, to be a sub, and they agreed.

I'm not forcing anything. Its a question "why was jb not on the list?" and i don't appreciate you skewing and smearing and using words like 'force'.

Why can't Ryan (or the other players with 5) just pick up JB (or any other strong player) now? Because it would skew the teams, any 6th pick needs to be of a similar level to the other 6th picks, otherwise you could create an unfair advantage for a team. But Ryan can pick up Mrak, or any of the others on the list for Jordan.

This is complete nonsense what are you talking about? Are all 6 players the same level? Of course not.
**
Again, and I'm now saying this for the fourth time, the "all captains must approve" bit only applies if the player being subbed in, is "much stronger". I'm not sure how much clearer that can be.**

*I'm saying this for the 1000th time. Don't patronise me. i don't agree and i don't have to agree for the reasons you are 'forcing' me to. You can bang on about it NOW. why you think captains can or can't agree, but this is not what was on the table. simple as that. *

If you don't like this specific sub, and therefore you think JB is much stronger than Jono, raise it now, and I'll take it to the captains for a discussion. If you don't, then accept the sub and we'll move on. It's pretty simple. You may well find yourself in the situation that you need a sub later in the year, so it's probably a good idea to build up some goodwill with the other captains.

Again: don't threaten or patronise me John. With your toe the line or else attitude. Its vulgar and i dont give a damn,

If you don't like the rule, you could have raised it any time between the proposal going up, and the draft, not now. I can't change the rules now, as otherwise people would have picked differently in the draft. Max even asked for clarification on the exact ruling for subs before making that pick, as did others.
Yep, quite, my point.

*maybe my fault for not being in the room . *

I am 100% happy with my team. It is not about trying to get a better team. The fact is that jono and jb have been picked as one player. You can spin it anyway you like and say no, jb is subbing blah blah. but that is not the case. Regarding one as better or not is not the point. Shall i say this any louder?
Neither is querying, clarifying, agreeing or disagreeing a reason for you to be patronising. Your rules are not clear, obviously or max would not have had to ask in person for clarification.

If i am pointing out a flaw in the system it is not simply for me. i don't think this is well handled. A draft should be a draft. Everyone gets equal opportunity to pick everyone. The subs really shouldn't even be part of the league if they were not to be picked on the night, that is why we had a bench team. We should have picked all the subs on the night with the knowledge that some could not play through injury for a while, or as casuals or whatever. I'm just as guilty as anyone else of not pointing that out, but i didnt understand it the way you say it now and i suspect neither did you.

Is it okay if Chukker's Fukkers have Mat sub for Todd, for our first game, while Todd is healing from his injury?

ok with me. what a gent you are V.

Why raise that now then Brendan, and not at the time I could have done something about it (ie before the draft). If we were to change the rules now, we'd have to start the whole process again, and do a re-draft.

I agree that having all the subs as picks would also have been a solution, and any problems later down the line would have had to be dealt with by squads, and not allow any subs. But what if three players from a team quit/were injured/left the country? How would you deal with that? Force the team to play as 2/3 people for the rest of the year? What if someone moves here in December and wants to play? I think the subs system as I implemented it is a good balance between flexibility & stopping people gaming the system.

I'm not really clear what it is you want me to do?

Is it okay if Chukker's Fukkers have Mat sub for Todd, for our first game, while Todd is healing from his injury?

Well, it's against the rules, on the basis that you had the full knowledge of Todd's injury before hand (other captains might have picked him if temporary subs were allowed).

That's what the squad system is for. If we allow this, it effectively changes the rules for the rest of the league, and allows temporary subs for everyone (and in theory forces a re-draft).

Don't forget, you don't have to play your first games until late November.

At the same time, if all captains agree to that rule change, I'm not going to stop it happening.

Thanks, John. The subbing rules were all a bit unclear to me.

brown, don’t under sell yourself. you were the mvp in europe back in 2009. never forget that mate.

Love this. JB = MVP

Jb = og

ICE T - O.G. Original Gangster (Video) - YouTube