LFGSS Ladies Jerseys - Discussion

Women's sizes:

1. scoot
   
2. ms.chris
   
3. Shoosh - L
   
4. missmouse - XS
   
5. bianchimasher - M
   
6. blowfish - M
   
7. Cafewanda - S
   
8. Lolabelle- M
   
9. Poots
   
10. Clefty
    
11. Doctor Cake
    
12. --------------
    
13. Cazakstan- L
    
14. pops1207
    
15. Katy B
    
16. IKHTW (same money thoughts as above)
    
17. hats
    
18. LittleHeather - M
    
19. bothwell - L
    
20. hoefla - M
    
21. Long&Bumping
    
22. Tanya g
    
23. mands = 1 - LGE
    
24. mands = and 1 - SML
    
25. alienmo (Emmy)
    
26. Jess
    
27. Tricitybendix - M
    
28. williamshatnerpants (cara)
    
29. saoirse (but not if it says, "I'm a lady").
    
    

Men's sizes:

1. Khornight2
   

Hi kat, that's a real shame. Also, what you say troubles me a little.

I can understand why the term 'ladies', as used in the 19th century and earlier, would render this jersey undesirable (I expect we all can!) but for me at least, the word used in this context has quite positive connotations and doesn't advocate Victorian conventions or ideals of femininity at all.

Rightly or wrongly it is also a fairly standard term for clothes sizing/style and I am comfortable with that.

Given that we have a whole forum called 'LFGSS Ladies' rather than 'Women' (which was started by women) it seems plausible that the word's meaning has evolved and perhaps come to represent modern notions of feminism or womanhood? Or perhaps there's an element of tongue in cheek about us using this expression?

Or maybe I am just prattling on about that which I don't know much about.

Either way, I'm sad you don't want a jersey :)

MM

Arrgh, sorry, but I'm out.
Looks like there are enough takers for my absence not to interfere with the scale of production/purchase plan.
Love the design but I can't get about in a top that says 'ladies' when I am currently doing lots of research work that writes against/about it in relation to history of women's cycling : /
I am up for a patch if they get made at some point.

As far as I remember, Nhatt and clefty were the instigators behind the use of 'ladies' here.

Indeed, and they are women are they not? ;)

So excited about our lovely jerseys!

Women's sizes:

1. scoot
   
2. ms.chris
   
3. Shoosh - L
   
4. missmouse - XS
   
5. bianchimasher - M
   
6. blowfish - M
   
7. Cafewanda - S
   
8. Lolabelle- M
   
9. Poots
   
10. Clefty
    
11. Doctor Cake
    
12. --------------
    
13. Cazakstan- L
    
14. pops1207
    
15. Katy B
    
16. IKHTW (same money thoughts as above)
    
17. hats - M
    
18. LittleHeather - M
    
19. bothwell - L
    
20. hoefla - M
    
21. Long&Bumping
    
22. Tanya g
    
23. mands = 1 - LGE
    
24. mands = and 1 - SML
    
25. alienmo (Emmy)
    
26. Jess
    
27. Tricitybendix - M
    
28. williamshatnerpants (cara)
    
29. saoirse (but not if it says, "I'm a lady").
    
    

Men's sizes:

1. Khornight2
   

So excited about our lovely jerseys!

Women's sizes:

1. scoot
   
2. ms.chris
   
3. Shoosh - L
   
4. missmouse - XS
   
5. bianchimasher - M
   
6. blowfish - M
   
7. Cafewanda - S
   
8. Lolabelle- M
   
9. Poots
   
10. Clefty
    
11. Doctor Cake
    
12. -----------------
    
13. Cazakstan- L
    
14. pops1207
    
15. Katy B
    
16. IKHTW (same money thoughts as above)
    
17. hats - M
    
18. LittleHeather - M
    
19. bothwell - L
    
20. hoefla - M
    
21. Long&Bumping
    
22. Tanya g
    
23. mands = 1 - LGE
    
24. mands = and 1 - SML
    
25. alienmo (Emmy)
    
26. Jess
    
27. Tricitybendix - M
    
28. williamshatnerpants (cara)
    
29. saoirse (but not if it says, "I'm a lady").
    
    

Men's sizes:

1. Khornight2
   
2. Bazschmaz - Mens Small :)
   

Women's sizes:

1. scoot
   
2. ms.chris -M
   
3. Shoosh - L
   
4. missmouse - XS
   
5. bianchimasher - M
   
6. blowfish - M
   
7. Cafewanda - S
   
8. Lolabelle- M
   
9. Poots
   
10. Clefty
    
11. Doctor Cake
    
12. -----------------
    
13. Cazakstan- L
    
14. pops1207
    
15. Katy B
    
16. IKHTW (same money thoughts as above)
    
17. hats - M
    
18. LittleHeather - M
    
19. bothwell - L
    
20. hoefla - M
    
21. Long&Bumping
    
22. Tanya g
    
23. mands = 1 - LGE
    
24. mands = and 1 - SML
    
25. alienmo (Emmy)
    
26. Jess
    
27. Tricitybendix - M
    
28. williamshatnerpants (cara)
    
29. saoirse (but not if it says, "I'm a lady").
    
    

Men's sizes:

1. Khornight2
   
2. Bazschmaz - Mens Small :)
   

Just a few blanks left then. :) Can anyone come to my place in SE5 to try the jerseys on tomorrow or Tuesday, early morning or evening?

I can't seem to find the final design anywhere on the thread- I see most people voted for ladies being on it- if it has ladies on it, I really don't want one- sorry- can't help it- the word has too much baggage for an ageing ex punk/70's feminist like me.

Couldn't say it better! I feel exactly like Alex! For me it's just a word and the name of this section of the forum, no hidden meaning etc. didn't want to get too involved into this whole debate as I just don't really care that much if "ladies" is included in the designe or not but now after Alex's post I can say that I feel the same :-)

Hi kat, that's a real shame. Also, what you say troubles me a little.

I can understand why the term 'ladies', as used in the 19th century and earlier, would render this jersey undesirable (I expect we all can!) but for me at least, the word used in this context has quite positive connotations and doesn't advocate Victorian conventions or ideals of femininity at all.

Rightly or wrongly it is also a fairly standard term for clothes sizing/style and I am comfortable with that.

Given that we have a whole forum called 'LFGSS Ladies' rather than 'Women' (which was started by women) it seems plausible that the word's meaning has evolved and perhaps come to represent modern notions of feminism or womanhood? Or perhaps there's an element of tongue in cheek about us using this expression?

Or maybe I am just prattling on about that which I don't know much about.

Either way, I'm sad you don't want a jersey :)

MM

Thanks MissMouse for your thoughts.
I'm sad I don't get a jersey too : (
But words are never just words (and I'm particularly sensitive to them given my vocation). They come from complex social, cultural and historical etymologies and they produce and reproduce expectations, assumptions, possibilities and limitations in everyday life. And this particular word is not working for me at present, though I very much like your argument about reclaiming and reshaping it's meaning. I'm all for that. It's just that it's a massive undertaking, as you mention due to it's use as a standard term for women's wear. But things do change ....

I can understand why the term 'ladies', as used in the 19th century and earlier, would render this jersey undesirable (I expect we all can!) but for me at least, the word used in this context has quite positive connotations and doesn't advocate Victorian conventions or ideals of femininity at all.

Either way, I'm sad you don't want a jersey :)

I agree with Alex too. Words and symbols do evolve and change meaning over time (ie: the swasika actually means "to be good" and yet now will forever be associated with the hate of the Nazi regime) and I think that that has happened to the term 'ladies,' in that it has quite positive connotations and doesn't advocate Victorian conventions or ideals of femininity at all

I think it's too bad that the term still holds such negative connotations for both of you (kat and saorise).

I will only wear "Ladies" because in this case it's the name of this wonderful corner of the internet. I wouldn't if it wasn't for that. I realise that people will think it just says "Ladies" because I am female... but I guess I'll accept that. JUST THIS ONCE MIND.

This is like a dysphemism treadmill!

OK that might be a little tenuous but we should TOTALLY put that on the jersey.

How about the LFGSS People With Vaginas? That has no historical connotations whatsoever, it's just pure science.

LFGSS Vag Crew

I would wear that. and I no has vag.

LFGSS Vaginas on Wheels

Tits On Fixed

I have had way too much caffeine. And vitamin C. I need to lie down.

Ha! So you mean the word 'ladies' being a euphemism for 'women' which was originally a euphemism for 'females' and so on?

I personally find both the latter more offensive than ladies as they suggest we are of man/male.

Skidding Breast Warriors

^yes! I want!

^^ Assumes we
a - have breasts
b - skid
c- fight

Out :(

idc. IN IN IN.

^^Missing the point... You are warriors fighting against the invasion of the breasts who skid.