LFGSS Ladies Jerseys - Discussion

Cool. Of course there are lots of men's sizes circulating already, as it were.

Though asking the chaps with 2011 lfgss jerseys to kindly bring theirs along to drinks for others to try on might be more hassle than it's worth.

^^ What an impressive study kat. I'm not surprised it took you two years!

I'm sharing the website url with my LCC group and will have a proper read when I can.

I just read this blog post for starters, a really fascinating piece on the concept/perception of competence. I'm sure there are many others :)

Re. the jersey, I don't have a strong view either way, or rather, I think there are pros and cons for keeping 'ladies' in the design.

Given that the decision was made to create a ladies specific forum here back in 2010, I assume there must have been some clear reasons behind why (I haven't had time to search this or ask Clefty/Nhatt).

Hopefully others on here will be less ambivalent.

I must admit to really liking the "On here" version...

The way I see it, "ladies" refers to the fact that, for better or worse, this corner of the forum is currently called LFGSS Ladies.

Personally, I really don't want to see two versions of the design made, especially not if it's "ladies" for the women, and gender-neutral "DAS"/"on here" for the men. If the guys like the design and want to wear it, they can wear it with "Ladies" on (in men's sizes). And they will too. Or we change it to a gender-neutral slogan for everyone.

There has been some debate on the title of the sub-forum, and we can always have it again. Maybe the 2013 jersey will say something else.

@missmouse - Thanks for your positive feedback on the site. It was a great project to be involved in. There will be much more stuff available as things get published from the research such as piece I did to deconstruct 'the ipod cycling zombie' (alas, academia is not a quick publishing discipline). Your colleagues were probably at today's Cycling and Society Conference at UEL....? I had a poster of this new pilot project ^ which is why it became all a bit top of mind again.

@hoefla - Liking your suggestions and completely agree that there shouldn't be two versions (ladies and other). I'll take a dig through the archives for past debates.

Yep, some of us were there I believe, not sure who from Southwark.

Are you still looking for bike stories?

Keep up the great work!

Hi everyone, I’ve been chewing on this for a while and it’s time I raised it. I’m wondering if we really need ‘ladies’ on the jersey… when we could have ‘women’ or leave it off completely*. The awesome design speaks for itself without what I think is a limiting qualifier.

I’ve been doing archival research into 'the bike, the bloomer and the female cyclist in late 19th century Britain'**. Basically to cut it short, it tells a pretty awesome story of the fight women had to escape the domestic sphere, ride safely (ie. bloomers etc) and challenge draconian Victorian ideals of femininity. Remember this was a time when exercise (as well as education) was viewed as compromising a woman’s health and her potential to reproduce!

Despite winning many of the freedoms we appreciate today, a number of social restrictions of the time transferred to women on bikes - ie. the construction of 'the lady cyclist’ - with much pressure to appear ‘graceful’, ‘becoming’, ‘neat’, ‘sensible’, ‘charming’, ‘dignified’, ‘modest’, (while a discourse of heroism linked men and cycling with ‘speed’, ‘agility’, ‘performance’, ‘champion’, ‘professional’ ‘skill’ etc).

My argument is that vestiges of ‘the lady cyclist’ continue today to shape (and limit) who women can be on bikes. How often do we growl about the broad marketing categories of Men’s bikes/cycling (serious, expensive) and Ladies’ bikes/cycling (bit flowery, lower end) etc etc.

So, my point is, sure, some of us are ladies (sometimes) but we are so much more : )

*apologies if I have missed this debate already….
**just finished two years on this - www.cyclingcultures.org.uk

Repped

We need one forum Jersey for all. The above design is gender neutral (Unlike last years). What difference does gender make to forum jerseys?
(Though I would like for me and a few other an LFGSS fatties Jersey:)

^ No offense skydancer, but surely this is for the ladies to decide?

As hoefla said, I think there are plenty of guys who'd happily wear one with 'ladies' on it.

Ask the women. Do a poll?

Good idea.

Are you still looking for bike stories?

Yes please, we'll be drawing this data for years yet! : )

@skydancer - a poll is a great idea.

^ No offense skydancer, but surely this is for the ladies to decide?

Also was expressing an opinion since I agree with Kat's point about the strange vestige of constructed gender differentiation in cycling. As a cycle trainer I see many silly pink purple bikes with tassels. It's depressing seeing how parts of the cycle industry maintain these outmoded stereotypes.

Anyway whatever happens each lady/gent/woman/man/person will decide for themselves whether to buy one

We need one forum Jersey for all.

thing is, this isn't the "official" LFGSS jersey, unlike last year's.
now I'm not known for wearing... I don't know how to describe it... women's versions of stuff, y'know. I'll wear dresses and skirts and flowery prints. I'll wear the women's cut if it fits better. but there's a certain kind of gender-branding which is common and I've always been turned off by, I'm sure most here have the same response. a shirt which has "Ladies" written across it would normally fall into that category, but in this instance I'm prepared to make an exception because it represents this place. and also cos the design is pretty cool.

... it represents this place. and also cos the design is pretty cool.

Agreed!!! Couldn't have said it better :)

Liking the "Ladies" and the non-gender-specific

We should have one that says "LADIES" and one that says "BEARDED LADIES". And one that says "LADYBOYS".

I'd probably buy and wear one of each.

And LADYKILLERS.

Ladettes & Ladies.

I made the design as ungirly as possible because, like hoefla, I'm not a fan of making something deliberately feminine because it is going to be worn by females (like the Mule Bar girls kit...urgh). I designed it so that the only thing that marked it apart from any other jersey design was the word 'ladies'. I think the fact that the boys of the forum have expressed an interest in it and only wanted that one word to be changed in order for it to be suitable for the male contingent proves this.

In terms of whether the jersey ought to be gender-neutral so that teh menz can wear it, I think that stems from a separate issue of many forumengers disliking the official forum jersey, but still want some kind of forum jersey. Just because there's a demand for another lfgss jersey it doesn't mean that us ladies can't have our own special one, there are plenty of designers on this forum who could knock up something better than mine in an hour. If people could be arsed there would be loads of forum jerseys for all the little forum niches and people wouldn't bat an eyelid at there being a ladies one.

Having said that, I am very susceptible to flattery and if enough people like my jersey and want a 'do a skid' or 'on here' one as well as a ladies one then I have no issue with it.

...and if I'm honest I kind of like the 'do a skid' one the most!!!

Will it come in pink?

the industry term is "shrink it and pink it" and is why often ladies bikes do not take into consideration the differing limb proportions for men and women, and all that happens is for the smaller sizes products get given a pink/purple/mauve makeover

But I like pink...

And anyway, going black and pink on cycle gear has neer been done before... Pink is nice, bit pricey though.