• You are (deliberately?) missing the point.

    Both camps put "their" offence into the "petty" box and the other groups offence into the "grave" box.

    Until we, as a group, realise that we are in denial about this we are never going to escape being labelled a bunch of hipocrites.

    Your own assertions on what is serious and what is not is irrelevant, unless you are just being an apologist for those that RLJ.

    EDIT kind of what Tiswas said- until we admit we have a problem, and therefore lose the "us and them", we are going nowhere.

    It's be nice if motorists admitted they have a problem, also.

    I'm not missing the point I'm denying it. You have failed to counter my argument by at any point trying to show how different defences for different actions can be treated differently. ie You can defend RLJ by cyclists without having to worry about justifying those who defend speeding by motorists.

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