Cycle campaigning

I think it's one of the areas where the Times need to explain themselves better. However, Trunk roads have a habit of occupying a lot of space in cities as well as frequently running through the middle of large towns and anything smaller. I understand that the HA still retains responsibility for a lot of these roads. On top of that trunk roads often form the most effective route between towns and cities so development of cycling facilities along them would improve the opportunities to get between them. It's all well and good devising a lovely quiet route for cyclists but if you're more interested in getting from A to B then instead of something winding and quiet you would probably prefer the option to take something quick and efficient. If infrastructure is going to be meaningful, the HA need to be fully invested and on board with the whole movement.

Most motorway junctions could do with a serious revamp as well.

yeah, I see where you're coming from. HA a portion then, focused on A to B routes and Mway junctions.

^^ missmouse, I understand why the event needs to be marshalled, however in some ways this suggests perhaps that a large number of cyclists using our roads (the situation we're trying to get to) can't be trusted to behave... any thoughts?

or are the marshalls tasked with ensuring other road users behave (unlikely to have powers to do this tho?)?

@rhb The marshalls are being used in the same way as they would be on the Tweed Run or in the same way that Critical Mass is corked by an unnofocial group of marshalls. It keeps the group togeher and cycling in one mass instead of strung out in a thin long line where other road users might take a chance with any gaps which appear. Also, someone has to know where the ride is going! :o)

^ what he said ;)

I've always wanted to marshall but I'm a bit of an introvert and not too sure of how I would get drivers on-side. Are there techniques? Does it take the gift of the gab. Huge urge to contribute but can't help feeling I'd be more of a hinderance than a help.

Behind the scenes guy perhaps.

@rhb The marshalls are being used in the same way as they would be on the Tweed Run or in the same way that Critical Mass is corked by an unnofocial group of marshalls. It keeps the group togeher and cycling in one mass instead of strung out in a thin long line where other road users might take a chance with any gaps which appear. Also, someone has to know where the ride is going! :o)

I understand this, however feel it misses the point I.e. the move to safer sharing of roads as legitimate users, not in isolation from other vehicles as a mass of cyclists.

Many of you here will already be aware of the LCC's Love London, Go Dutch campaign. But please do sign the petition and pass it on to friends and family!

http://petition.lcc.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1745&ea.campaign.id=13331

Oliver S or Velocio... is it possible to put the petition link at the top of the forum as a sticky? At least until the end of the campaign?

I've always wanted to marshall but I'm a bit of an introvert and not too sure of how I would get drivers on-side. Are there techniques? Does it take the gift of the gab. Huge urge to contribute but can't help feeling I'd be more of a hinderance than a help.

Behind the scenes guy perhaps.
Come and find me. I'll be guiding another new marshal and would happily give you some direction too. Alex

^^ missmouse, I understand why the event needs to be marshalled, however in some ways this suggests perhaps that a large number of cyclists using our roads (the situation we're trying to get to) can't be trusted to behave... any thoughts?

or are the marshalls tasked with ensuring other road users behave (unlikely to have powers to do this tho?)?

@rhb The marshalls are being used in the same way as they would be on the Tweed Run or in the same way that Critical Mass is corked by an unnofocial group of marshalls. It keeps the group togeher and cycling in one mass instead of strung out in a thin long line where other road users might take a chance with any gaps which appear. Also, someone has to know where the ride is going! :o)

I understand this, however feel it misses the point I.e. the move to safer sharing of roads as legitimate users, not in isolation from other vehicles as a mass of cyclists.
Correct me if I'm wrong Mark but I think you've missed the point rhb. We do, of course, want safer roads on which many more cyclists can and will cycle as equally important road users. In order for this to happen significant changes need to be made at government level which is why we have decided to do a flashride next week. No one is suggesting this ride should be indicative of the kind of cycling we want to see on a daily basis going forward but it's a demonstration, a sure way of showing our presence. A strung out thin long line of 300+ cyclists isn't really going to say much.

I understand that, and I'm willing to admit at there are lorry drivers that drive without the amount of caution needed in a city. But I have witnessed first hand cyclists and pedestrians cuting it close by nipping out in front of lorrys.

That may be the case, but the fact is that the HGV make it a lots harder to see peds/cyclists around without being cautious.

any other vehicles, the motorists is less likely to hit them since they've less of a blind spot than the notorious badly designed HGV that's build solely for motorway haulage.

We both have differant opinions and could argue the toss for ages, I just wanted to point out the fact that yes lorries are problamatic in cities, but there is a lot more to it than just taking them off the roads, as someof the members on here seem to think. I thi nk the matter should just be left alone now.

Correct me if I'm wrong Mark but I think you've missed the point rhb. We do, of course, want safer roads on which many more cyclists can and will cycle as equally important road users. In order for this to happen significant changes need to be made at government level which is why we have decided to do a flashride next week. No one is suggesting this ride should be indicative of the kind of cycling we want to see on a daily basis going forward but it's a demonstration, a sure way of showing our presence. A strung out thin long line of 300+ cyclists isn't really going to say much.

That's the long and short of it, yep. The fact that the ride on Wednesday is being marshalled has nothing to do with how we'd like our streets to look in the future and all to do with keeping a disparate group of cyclists in one pack intact and dare I even suggest it all in one place to ensure any snaps for the media are suitably dramatic :)

It will be fun, come!

Thanks Miss Mouse and Ed for encouraging me to marshall. I'm a bit of an introvert and almost certain I won't be up to the task on Wednesday, but would love to hear how you approach it so I can figure out what's requried.

Either way, will be there on Weds to fill out numbers and make some racket.

We both have differant opinions and could argue the toss for ages, I just wanted to point out the fact that yes lorries are problamatic in cities, but there is a lot more to it than just taking them off the roads, as someof the members on here seem to think. I thi nk the matter should just be left alone now.

There is a lots more than just taking them off the road, in fact Paris has done that already (limiting them between 17.00 and 22.00 AFAIK).

You have to take in account that buses (london especially) are everywhere, yet the number of fatalities involving cyclists and buses are pretty low, especially with the design of the cab sit a lots lower with decent visabilities.

HGV account for a very small number of traffic in London yet, they remain problematic.

I moved your comment here because it's the right place to discuss it.

Correct me if I'm wrong Mark but I think you've missed the point rhb. We do, of course, want safer roads on which many more cyclists can and will cycle as equally important road users. In order for this to happen significant changes need to be made at government level which is why we have decided to do a flashride next week. No one is suggesting this ride should be indicative of the kind of cycling we want to see on a daily basis going forward but it's a demonstration, a sure way of showing our presence. A strung out thin long line of 300+ cyclists isn't really going to say much.

That's the long and short of it, yep. The fact that the ride on Wednesday is being marshalled has nothing to do with how we'd like our streets to look in the future and all to do with keeping a disparate group of cyclists in one pack intact and dare I even suggest it all in one place to ensure any snaps for the media are suitably dramatic :)

It will be fun, come!

Understood, but why not make the ride indicative of the sort of cycling you want to see on a daily basis?

I.e. instead of meeting at A to ride to B, why not ask people to simple arrive at B en-mass at the given time (more a Flash-Mob on bikes than a flash-ride).

Enough folks coming in from all compass points will aptly demonstrate the type of cycling you're looking to achieve, whilst still providing the photocall.

Then you can lobby MP's, do something radical with old inner tubes, or even just ring your bells defiantly for a while, before folks drift away again.

Just a thought. I hope it goes well anyway...

Thanks Miss Mouse and Ed for encouraging me to marshall. I'm a bit of an introvert and almost certain I won't be up to the task on Wednesday, but would love to hear how you approach it so I can figure out what's requried.

Either way, will be there on Weds to fill out numbers and make some racket.

Glad to hear it. See you there!

Read the LCC magazine a docs waiting room in Islington yesterday. A very pleasant and well designed read I thought.

We both have differant opinions and could argue the toss for ages, I just wanted to point out the fact that yes lorries are problamatic in cities, but there is a lot more to it than just taking them off the roads, as someof the members on here seem to think. I thi nk the matter should just be left alone now.

Tom, in the rider down thread, you said that the lorry was your fathers.

My dad is the owner of that lorry

Perhaps you could let us know what saftey measures have been installed on this lorry in particular, and on others in the fleet that it's part of?

Cemex in particular are, I believe, leading on this with their lorrys being fitted with safety devices to help their drivers avoid incidents.

All 417 vehicles are fitted with rear signage on the nearside corner, and additional nearside mirrors, which aid visibility all around the vehicle. Proximity sensors and under run safety bars, where appropriate, are also being added (from BikeRadar news)

http://www.cemex.co.uk/ac/ac_pr_20101125.asp certainly makes it sound like they would be helpful in sharing their knowledge with other lorry owners if asked.

LCC has equated helmet compulsion with providing cycle training:
This is on LCC website in a piece about tomorrow EDM ride:

"However, there are concerns that the Commons debate on Thursday could be hampered by the fact that too many MPs:

• don't cycle at all or understand the dangers of cycling in many of Britain's streets
  
• have never cycled around the dangerous one-way at Parliament Square or other initimidating roads in central London
  
• think reducing road danger is just about providing more cycle training or making people wear helmets"
  
  

While educating drivers, who are the source of danger, is more important than training cyclists, an important strand of road danger reduction is promoting benign modes of transport . Training does that well. Many people get converted to riding after being trained/ It also reduces road danger by helping people realise that they can influence drivers by their communication and positioning.

Please LCC change that sentence.

Please LCC change that sentence.
I have done a quick re-edit to make the sense clearer. There is no intention to equate cycle training with helmets, just to make the point that some MPs take a very single minded view of dealing with cycling issues.
The revised text says:....

. . . . too many MPs:

• don't cycle at all or understand the dangers of cycling in many of Britain's streets
  
• have never cycled around the dangerous one-way at Parliament Square or other initimidating roads in central London
  
• think reducing road danger is just about making people wear helmets or doing no more than providing cycle training
  

That is an improvement
Cheers Charlie_lcc

Thanks, Charlie, that's better. That did rankle with me too.

^.....and me.

Morning all! Hope to see lots of familiar faces this evening!

Quick query, (regarding the EDM for Thursday), doesn't it seem a bit strange that the MP for Hackney North, a borough I perceive to be more cycle-friendly than many, is unable to lend her support to it because of her role as a shadow minister? Is there no way around it for ministers in her position, regardless of how 'sympathetic' she may or may not be?

Dear CYOA,
Thank you for your e-mail. Diane is sympathetic to your cause. Unfortunately due to her position as Shadow Minister for Public Health she is unable to sign any EDMs. Please do not hesitate to contact her in the future with any queries you may have.

Regards,

Office of Diane Abbott

That's what they always say. I've never seen any reasons to doubt that it's true. Diane Abbott has always been supportive of cycling in Hackney so far as I know. She always contributes raffle prizes to our LCC in Hackney fundraisers etc. As you know, EDMs are mostly token gestures, anyway.