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• #2
Glad to hear of the conviction but sorry to hear about the grilling. It seems that defense lawyers like to use attack as a form of defense if they don't have much of the latter as they need to instill any element of doubt.
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• #3
With the obvious exception being that you had to endure such a shitty experience I really like this story. Not least because of your clear headed determination not to allow him to get away with it.
Thanks for posting K-C
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• #4
Sounds like a stressful experience, glad that you saw it through and some justice (however small) will be served. With any luck he'll screw up his probbation and end up in jail on the receiving end of similar threats and actions that he directed at you....
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• #5
I like the fact that on this occasion he has had to deal with the fall out from his horrible behavior.
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• #6
Good story. Look forward to hearing the sentence.
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• #7
I can sympathise with the whole, being in the dock thing.
I was assaulted by a guy off this here forum down in Brighton, and was made to look like a drunken thug, despite having had both my front teeth broken, the guy admitting he did it, he still got off. And I'm still going through CICA to try and get my front teeth fixed.I hated how the defence lawyer made me feel and that there was little I could do or had been prepared for.
I'm really glad you got to school the lawyer and got the right result! Props.
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• #8
Sounds like a stressful experience, glad that you saw it through and some justice (however small) will be served. With any luck he'll screw up his probbation and end up in jail on the receiving end of similar threats and actions that he directed at you....
I dunno. I mean, it was stressful, but I didn't actually get punched, and was ok by the evening (in time to see Alex Dowsett's legendary performance). Court was stressful but also absolutely fascinating, and sort of my duty really, so I wouldn't not have gone- same for the two witnesses I think.
I think he'll get a community sentence of a decent length- 6 months minimum the magistrate said. And as he has no previous convictions (although that doesn't mean he has no previous arrests/ wasn't already known to the police), I think this is about right- I for one would rather our prison population doesn't grow any further.
I hope the main outcome is that he is patient with cyclists, and maybe one or two people he knows will be, and maybe the legal bods involved in the case will have learnt something about cyclists' rights. -
• #9
Wow, that sounds like a horrible experience, or rather two of them, but well done
I wonder how widely this will be reported? It would be good if it became well known that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.
I was assaulted by a car load of people and the only witness was a family member, so the CPS decided that it wouldn't win it in court, so the offenders got away with it. -
• #10
Yep, in a lot of ways the main lesson I learned was that if you're going to do something wrong, just make sure no-one's watching, because even with witnesses it's very difficult to prove anything- just someone's word against someone else's.
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• #11
feel free to tell me to jog on, but would it be wise to add some advise on the "what to do in case..." thread? maybe like a "should your case go this far... kind of thing" I'm sure people would appreciate the forewarning if they should ever have to be in the same situation. knowing that you could potentially have someone trying to discredit what you say might help people be prepared?
just an idea
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• #12
^ It's a good idea. But it wasn't my case- it was the Crown Prosectution Service's, and even though I was the victim, I was essentially giving evidence as a witness. If he'd been found not guilty, the CPS would have lost, not me.
I think the CPS probably should have done more to prepare me and the other witnesses, although as it happened we were all very sensible and the magistrate supported one guy who got flustered when he couldn't remember, telling him it wasn't a memory test and requesting he be given his statement to re-read.
It would have been in their interest but as it was I think they probably had a very strong case, knew they did, and didn't need to do much- we 3 just needed to tell it like it was. This was partly evidenced by the fact that they out a very young, inxperienced lawyer on it. -
• #13
Good work, K-C :)
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• #14
Brilliant, I think it's really good that you took it so far and very brave of you to stand in a courtroom and be able to keep it together. That sounds horribly patronising, but I don't mean it to, I really don't think I could have taken it that far. I never know how I'd react in a situation like you were in, but my first thoughts always go to blind rage and grabbing a D-lock so I think I'd just get myself in even more trouble.
Sounds like a horrible antisocial cunt will get what he deserves, and as we can attest to from the bad driving and bad cycling threads that doesn't happen often.
It also sounds like the police come across reasonably well in this, deciding to go for a stronger charge against him rather than playing it down.
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• #15
Blimey, what an experience. Glad to hear you came out of it relatively unscathed. I can't help thinking this sort of driver needs psychiatric treatment/anger management therapy. Or maybe it was just the wrong time of the month for him.
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• #16
The defence lawyer got a bit of a shock when I told the court I was a cycle instructor- she hadn't know this as it wasn't mentioned in my statement, as m statement focused on the attack and not my cycling.
Recounting the attack was very unpleasant but explaining safe cycling to the court was very satisfying- I hadn't been prepared to explain primary position and crap bike lanes but when I realised how unprepared the lawyers were, I really got into it!
That is excellent
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• #17
Bloody well done.
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• #18
As others have said:awful experience, great story. Love the bit where you reveal you're a cycling instructor! One wouldn't believe the defence lawyers should be so unprepared.
Community Sentence sounds about right. A criminal record is not to be sniffed at either - he'll have to reveal that for future jobs, he'll have trouble travelling to certain countries and his insurance premiums (for everything, not just his car) will go up. The way things are going, if he gets assaulted himself he won't be able to claim to victim's compensation...
Although the incident must have been really really shocking, at least that time nobody got hurt and he came up against some determined and intelligent people. If it hadn't happened, he may have carried on and next time he could have been far more violent.
Thanks for posting the account.
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• #19
Well done Katie!
I had a similar experience last year where a wvm overtook me where there wasn't really room to do so and then pulled in tight to the kerb before he was past me. My first reaction was to give him the 5 knuckle wave which he saw in his mirror and took major offence to. He blocked my path with his van and got out and started threatening me. Luckily there were plenty of witnesses as he had completely blocked the road and it was probably me pointing this out that prevented it becoming physical - he was part man part gorilla btw so it could have got very messy.
Good on you for seeing this one through!
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• #20
I'd just like to add my voice to those giving congrats Katie.
I've not yet had to go to court for anything (and touch wood, won't have to), but there is somewhere, and I will try to dig it out, a great guide for those that do have to go as witnesses. Its applicable to civil cases mostly, but there are some tips in it for criminal cases I seem to recall. I will try to find it, and post a link both here and in the in case of accident thread
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• #21
I think this is also going to make me think twice about how I react to arsehole drivers and so on. I'm normally quite quick to throw up a finger or bang on a window but realising the possible consequences, I might have to bite the bullet and grow up a bit.
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• #22
The defence lawyer got a bit of a shock when I told the court I was a cycle instructor
BOOM!
"Did you order the code red?!?!"
"You're god damn right I did!!!" -
• #24
Not as strict as if they had've hung around. #keyboardwarriordeathpenalty
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• #25
You seem to be suggesting that K-C's behaviour was as fault here?
Blaming the victim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
God no, not at all. I really come across like a twat in everything I've posted in this thread. Middle fingers, wanker signs, shouting abuse are all completely reasonable and natural reactions to cuntish behaviour from drivers (and fellow cyclists). But this thread shows that it can be a red rag to an already cuntish bull, so we should be careful is all.
If it seemed like I was blaming KC in any way, just say 'sunshine, banned' and I'll get my coat.
Also, sorry if you weren't being totally serious, but I thought I should explain myself anyway.
Last June (11th, day of the Nocturne) I was riding through Bethnal Green at 1pm, some impatient driver behind me honking and driving far too close. I looked over my shoulder, carried on, he overtook me and screeched over to the left. As I went past him he opened his window and yelled "you fucking bitch" at me.
Unimpressed, I did what anyone would have done- gave him the finger and carried on. (I'm not proud of that btw).
He pulled back out, overtook me again and stopped really suddenly, forcing me to stop behind him.
He got out of his car, walked over to me, fist raised, and grabbed the front of my coat, pulling me over my handlebars as I hadn't had time to even get off my bike.
He yelled various threats and obscenities in my face, fist raised all the time, including "I'm gonna fuck you up, I don't care if you're a girl on a bike, I'm gonna fucking kill you".
Then he went and got back in his car and drove off.
I had my phone in my pocket, and took a photo of the back of his car as he went. And there was another cyclist who'd stopped and a pedestrian on the pavement who came forward, both of whom had seen it all, asked me if I was ok, and gave me their details as I collapsed into tears and shakes.
The police said it was technically assault but he'd probably be charged with a public disorder offence- but they charged him with common assault, public disorder (using language to cause distress and alarm) and driving without due care and attention.
He pleaded 'not guilty' and the case was set to come to the Magistrates' court in October. Two days before the case, the defence applied for (and were granted) a postponement, citing insufficient time to prepare their case.
The case was rescheduled for the 23rd of January so last week I went and gave evidence.
I, and the two other independent witnesses, stood up and said exactly the same thing, with slight variations allowing for our different viewpoints of the same event.
We were all cross-examined by the defence lawyer, which was very unsettling and I hadn't been prepared for the experience at all- she accused me of lying, of asking the others to lie for me, and her case was mainly based around my cycling. As the defendant basically had no defence, they tried to build a case around my cycling being poor and him having got out of his car to tell me this.
The defence lawyer got a bit of a shock when I told the court I was a cycle instructor- she hadn't know this as it wasn't mentioned in my statement, as m statement focused on the attack and not my cycling.
Recounting the attack was very unpleasant but explaining safe cycling to the court was very satisfying- I hadn't been prepared to explain primary position and crap bike lanes but when I realised how unprepared the lawyers were, I really got into it!
The defendant was convicted of common assault and public disorder- he'll be sentenced in 2 weeks' time. It will probably be a community sentence but if he doesn't keep his appointments with the probation service between now and then it might become a custodial sentence.
The court experience was pretty stressful at the time- after the defendent had given his evidence I really thought he'd get away with it, despite me and the other witnesses being much more reliable and credible. The whole thing demonstrated how difficult it is to actually prove anything, and therefore how difficult to convict anyone of a crime (and rightly so I think).
Thought the forum might appreciate this story!