Primary position

Link:

http://windermereroadies.com/temp/FDOT_BDK82%20977-01_rpt.pdf

Link:

http://windermereroadies.com/temp/FDOT_BDK82%20977-01_rpt.pdf

Thanks, I knew I had forgotten something.

Bicycling in traffic is a dance you lead

http://vimeo.com/9827254

OK, being picky, some of that rear observation is a bit rubbish, there's looking over the shoulder, but I', simply not convinced that the cyclist could tell you what was actually behind them. The parallel is that with advanced driving (where you're supposed to check your rear view mirror every 7-10 seconds) I had an examiner cover up my rear view mirror and ask me to name the colour of the three vehicles behind us in order. Of course I couldn't do it, I was looking in my rear view mirror, I wasn't 'seeing' and 'reading' what was behind me. I shall now return to the meringues.

^^ There's always someone In the comments..

OK, being picky, some of that rear observation is a bit rubbish, there's looking over the shoulder, but I', simply not convinced that the cyclist could tell you what was actually behind them.

You are right bagheera that looking back doesn't always help you know exactly what is behind nor can looking behind always enable eye contact with a driver. What it does do however is draw attention to yourself to any drivers behind you, humanising you, which can make them hang back, pass wide and slower. Worth doing and doing loads on a bike.

Agreed...... perhaps instead of 'look back in anger' it should be 'look back and smile, and the whole world smiles with you'....

No meringues left..... going for a ride instead.

Don't forget the thumbs up

I've done a lot of riding this week and have got into the habit of giving a thumbs up and where possible a smile to any driver who gave me space. Most of these miles have been in the country but some in the city. I've really enjoyed it...receiving a toot of the horn or a quick flash of the hazards to say thanks especially when I've waved them through when they've kept their distance.

I've really felt in control of my fate this week...and to be honest, I'm not sure I've had to use primary position at all. This is mainly down to the width, quietness and quality of the roads where I have been riding though. The considerate driving I have experienced was just icing on the cake.

I received identical phrases as you Dan, with the difference is that I ride on primary until I feel it's safe to let them overtake me (in Cumbria especially).

primary really is about reducing the risk, especially for example in corner, staying in primary allowed the incoming driver to see you sooner than later.

Don't forget the thumbs up

I am throwing peace signs. Its pretty lame.

I also do it to the Malaysian girls in the office cos I know they love that shit.

Drivers have generally been good for the last few weeks.. fucking peds though..

This is primary position for some of the class a fuckwits I've encountered..

Just a quick query for the trainers here about primary and tram tracks.

I'm not sure about elsewhere, but here in Sheffield trams run down single carriageways. It's possible to ride primary but as that's between the tram tracks it possess the occaisional problem that when traffic builds up/gets twitchy behind you, you've got to cross the tracks gutterwards if you want to allow space for drivers to pass easily. You also don't really want to be making a sudden left flick if a driver makes that dick move to get around. On the other hand, keeping to the left of the tracks immediately makes you submissive to motor traffic.

You can keep switching back and forth but this contravenes the principle that the more you cross the tracks, the more likely you are to stack. This isn't aided by the presence of protruding platforms that are risky to pass left of the tracks, necessitating a move into the middle. What sort of advice would you give to a new rider under training? Typical design can be found here.

Looks like there is not enough space to ride between the track and kerb in any case. Also, if you were near the kerb and wanted to take the lane, there is not enough wobble room for a good look behind first. At least not for less experienced riders. Gotta stay between the tracks really and feel the drivers lazer eyes burning into your back! Smile and wave... Terrible road!

^^ are there any other roads parrallel so you could avoid tram tracks?

@Londonneur - That's just the view at a tram platform. If you back up or turn 180 then you'll see that there's more space available. You could stick between the tracks, but it's not lazer eyes you have to worry about. Any impatient drive deciding to push around you may force an unplanned crossing of the track.

@rhb - The alternatives are either a busy dual carriageway with hectic junctions and some harsh uphills to get up to this point (I usually pick up this road at a low confluence) or some convoluted detours with a lot of climing and descending of a type that isn't easy on fixed.

For myself, I generally stick kerbside but close to the track to give myself as much space in the road as possible and make early, planned transitions into the middle before the tram stops and take my time getting back out afterwards.

Primary all the way. You don't have a choice.

You need to be in primary for all those traffic islands and visibility of you from a lot of the side roads wouldn't be great in secondary either. The road isn't wide enough for a vehicle to pass you safely without crossing the white lines even if you were in secondary.

If you're really concerned about holding up the traffic, pull in to some safe spaces along the way to let the traffic pass. Personally I'd try to manage that at the many traffic lights rather than leave the flow of traffic completely.

When in doubt, primary.

If you're really concerned about holding up the traffic, pull in to some safe spaces along the way to let the traffic pass. Personally I'd try to manage that at the many traffic lights rather than leave the flow of traffic completely.

+1

My Auntie Brenda
who you may have seen on her shopper in Tooting and has been toddling around on it since before I was born, hates cycling in the primary position. She thinks I'm trying to kill her. Even with the HGV left-turning argument, she reckons she's safer out of the line of traffic, that she goes so slow that she's not going to broadside an opening door, person pulling out of a side road etc.

I'm glad she's cycling at her age and she needs to feel comfortable doing it. I do not want to put her off.

It does make me wonder if some parts of Bikeability are most suited for confident fast-moving cyclists (in the image of the people who wrote it?) and that not only neglects people like my Auntie but is actually shifting blame to them in the event of an accident.

There's a lot of sense written on this forum so I would genuinely appreciate people's opinions please. Thanks.

I had a black cab driver get out of his cab when we stopped at some lights and tell me to move over as he was faster.. oh and to go back where I came from. It amused me for the rest of my commute.

I'd been riding around some potholes when he beeped me trying to squeeze between me and a 4x4 that was in the other lane on Euston Rd.

Just for any cabbies reading this.. the more you beep the further out I will move and the slower I will go. Yes, I am looking for conflict. No, I will not alter my behaviour.

My Auntie Brenda
It does make me wonder if some parts of Bikeability are most suited for confident fast-moving cyclists (in the image of the people who wrote it?) and that not only neglects people like my Auntie but is actually shifting blame to them in the event of an accident.

Great that Aunty Brenda is cycling. Bikeability's main aim to to promote cycling
There is no contradiction between bikeability training and people who do not move at the speed of the moving traffic. Bikeabiliy is about helping people understand where the risks lie. An instructor would help a person understand that riding away from a parked car door is less risky however where she not to do that a driver opening the door without looking the driver would be liable.

When we train professional drivers we teach them to accommodate cyclists in a variety of positions. Cycle training is one act of road danger reduction. Teaching people to assess risk more accurately. Other road danger reductions (and perhaps better ones) are teaching drivers how to lower risk as they ARE the source of danger. More of this is happening in London

Just for any cabbies reading this.. the more you beep the further out I will move and the slower I will go. Yes, I am looking for conflict. No, I will not alter my behaviour.

There should be space on the road for both Hippy and Aunty Brenda. You're no pussy Hippy

There was room. All cabbie had to do was wait 10 seconds and it would have appeared as if by magic.
The cabbie wasted more time walking over to have a cry than he did driving behind me.

One day hippy, one day they'll get it. many other london drivers have got it. Keep telling them and don't give them an inch.

Yes, I look like a convict.

And some say you Aussie' are awesome.