Polo Rules

I'm stepping down as a ref in light of the NA debate (I have a feeling Bill will too), I don't think I am helping the London scene develop if the front wheel advantage/cutting a line NA approach is the future of polo..

Gotta call BS here Jono, the two European players who were involved in this controversial play are not convinced this was a foul, either. And as I keep saying, neither the EHBPC nor NAH rules state that the player with the ball has a rigt of way. If you think that's wrong, then come up with a rule, don't leave it in the ref's discretion to say its a "dangerous play". The more that is left to the refs discretion, the harder it will be to enforce rules.

I think you also need to recognize that early on, well before we had refs or tournaments that had more than 10 teams, a need was felt to distinguish hardcourt from grass, and for better or worse the difference regarding "right of way" was one of those distinctions. As someone who initially played grass (although a relatively anarchic version of it, with Vidal for example), I never felt this need. But the distinction is part of the history of hardcourt, and that history is felt more in some places than others. So to change tha (and most people think the sport should continue ti evolve), you'd have to be pretty deliberate, explicit, etc.

Also, you should really come play a bunch in NA, or talk more to people who have played a lot here, I think you have (and are giving others) the wrong impression.

Gotta call BS here Jono

Fuck off Kev... I'm not arguing for a right of way rule and I'm not giving anyone the wrong impression.

I talk to all Euro players as much as possible, it's one of the main reasons I believe everyone has a different interpretation of the rules/what's acceptable.

Jono and bill I don't think either of you should stop reffing or start being a dick (that's to jono, bills already a dick :)

Is that thread really about changing rules or is it just another Internet argument?

If you are going to give up on something jono, just step away from that thread.

Louis, I don't understand the rules anymore... I'll ref again when I do, it's also a nice chance for others to step up, I'll talk to you about it sometime.

No rules have changed, but Bill and I agree on certain principles of polo that no longer appear to be valid (the person on the ball having the benefit of the doubt, players either "playing the ball" or "playing the player" for crashes, avoiding causing needless contact/crashes, etc).

I will be playing (in London's eyes) a little more dickishly perhaps, but we have perhaps been playing overly considerately all along.

I'm not following the thread on LOBP properly because I can't see the video. I am so much more interested in seeing people skillfully pass or navigate the ball to goal, than a game of spending more time being checked into the boards than playing. The more checks and general shoving, knocking people off, cutting lines forcing people into T-Bones or the wall, hacking people so they fall off... The more dull it gets. It's just so fucking boring.

What's even worse is how it escalates, the notion of "I have to play that physical because the other team play like that" is just so sad.

Ok, although I read the thread before I've only just watched the video. And I think what you are trying to say is valid, but you are being bogged down by the example used.

Also I think that the way the americans are talking it's only time before someone is badly injured by one of these legal highspeed dick moves. Sadly it's probably only then that they will reconsider.

Maybe the question you should ask is why is a t-bone dangerous and therefore illegal, but doing basically the same thing at a slight angle stops it being dangerous?

(you might have asked already but tl;dr)

Fuck off Kev...

Really?

I'm not arguing for a right of way rule

Then there's a major misunderstanding going on in that thread, which sucks, cause now we're yelling at each other :-)

BTW, hypothetically, if you were arguing for a right of way rule in certain circumstances of play, i would potentially support it. Not that i have any sway on rules....

I'm not giving anyone the wrong impression.

I'm just not a big fan of the "NA vs Europe" discourse, it's not constructive, it's boring, and often based on internet misunderstandings or weird videos. Come hang out here!

Aren't those saying it's not a foul using a right of way to back their arguement up? Ie the person with the wheel in front has right of way? Frankly the t-bone rule is a form of right of way.

Just calling something a right of way rule or saying there isn't one is a bit meaningless. The fact is in any situation you need to know if it's legal for you to go somewhere or not.

Calling something right of way or not is just semantics.

The question is, is it legal to take someone's front wheel out with your back wheel? If it is, should it be? If someone gets badly injured through it happening with the people saying it shouldn't be rule feel guilty?

play the ball. <period

Jono, Bill, please don't quit reffing. I can completely understand the frustration, but you two are the best 2 refs in the UK, we need you guys.

I'm following the debate and think it's important. Too many people play polo, and moan indirectly about 'the rules', but don't engage with the debate. I think in that video Will clearly fouled Clement. Obviously they are both skilled players, and I think Will almost admitted guilt by saying he commited to the line and couldn't stop in time. It's competetive, mistakes will be made. That's fine but we can learn from it.

I can't believe that we can't incorporate some kind of rule based on likely consequence (of playing the ball or the player) of actions. Jono said something about leaving another evasive option; I think between those two things there is a rule and we all just need it to be written so we can get on with playing skilful fluid creative polo rather than crunching deadening urban hammer ball.

Personally, when I read LOBP I feel very grateful that I play polo in the UK/Europe and not in NA. This 'check or you will be checked' attitude is making us look like talentless thugs.

People need to stop making assumptions about NA polo just by reading LOBP.

I understand completelly London International Invitationnal was an exibition tournament, and I have nothing to say on how Bill reffed there (except tape out story). And again thanks dude it was a performance to do it 3 days long.

It's a detail but I have to tell it because it was sometimes boring, when you give a start, I think you should do it quicker.

Something more like: team ready? - team ready? - on the whistle - bip
instead of: team ready? - team ready?- ten seconds - bip

play the ball. <period

This is why london polo is the best. Play the ball, it's simple enough.

People need to stop making assumptions about NA polo just by reading a small minority of threads on LOBP.

fixed.

I understand completelly London International Invitationnal was an exibition tournament, and I have nothing to say on how Bill reffed there (except tape out story). And again thanks dude it was a performance to do it 3 days long.

It's a detail but I have to tell it because it was sometimes boring, when you give a start, I think you should do it quicker.

Something more like: team ready? - team ready? - on the whistle - bip
instead of: team ready? - team ready?- ten seconds - bip

I think it's important to have a different amount of time each game, between asking if teams are ready and the whistle, but no more than 5 or 6 seconds.

i.e, ready?...ready?...whistle.

next game: ready?...ready?..........whistle.

next game: ready?...ready?......whistle.

This makes it much harder for teams to jump the gun. Also the whistle should not be on the beat so you can charge on the "w of whistle".

They used to do this in mountain bike races. They'd say the race will start anytime within the next 30 seconds, then you'd be bricking it for 10 - 15 seconds before the air-horn. No false starts.

Goal refs should also be more vigilant on back wheels on the boards, I've seen people creeping up to a foot or so off the boards and when you only win the charge by half a foot, something's wrong.

ready?...ready?...whistle

Perfect, with 3 seconds between each signal.

People need to stop making assumptions about NA polo just by reading LOBP.

True, but if that's aimed at me it's more about not "getting" the ruleset/how to ref. I'm still clueless even after digging up old threads on LFGSS and LOBP, maybe the next NAH ruleset will help clarify things. It seems as if the way I view most collisions is incorrect.

I think it's important to have a different amount of time each game

Agreed, this has been discussed in the past, it's the better approach (to avoid cheating).

Perfect, with 3 seconds between each signal.

The purpose of the whistle is to randomise when the players start the charge, this ensures you can't cheat (go a small fraction of a second before you should, etc).

just started watching. T BONE.

http://coolbikevideos.com/2011-whbpc-highlights/

ready?...ready?...whistle

Perfect, with 3 seconds between each signal.

sorry will, i didn't say it very well, I meant anything but that.

ready?...ready?....whistle.

oh ok anything but that sorry.

Maybe because players didn't know about this random system (and because there was a long long silence before the whistle), but I never saw as much as faulse start than at LII.

I start a discussion about start system with the French Comitee to have a larger opinion, come back to you then.

Yeah, if it's too long to wait then people start drifting forwards, the ref should call them back if that's the case.

My personal preference would be to be "immediate" with your whistle blow, or leave it a second or two, anything over three seconds gets a bit irritating.

I'm stepping down as a ref in light of the NA debate (I have a feeling Bill will too), I don't think I am helping the London scene develop if the front wheel advantage/cutting a line NA approach is the future of polo.

I also think London needs to start playing "dickishly" if we don't want to get left behind. If you have the front wheel advantage (in any situation) then you are allowed to wreck the player behind you.

I totally endorse what Jono is saying here. In the light of what has been said on the thread in question, I find that I am NOT reffing according to international norms, and do not feel I can continue. I also agree with Jono that London needs to play a lot more dickishly, if we aren't to be left behind.

If you think that's wrong, then come up with a rule,

Orly? And how will this rule be accepted? Is there a mechanism by which we can engage with the NAH? At the moment it's just one way traffic.