• A Viner 'star'-lug usually looks like on this pic:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/10703870@N06/4676500253/

    As you can read form the other topic, it's very likely that it has different Italian roots (probably Colnago-related, but built anonymously for a Dutch/Belgian third-party connection.)

    The 'x' in the lug instead of a star-shape seems the main reason these frames are identified as an Viner. But I don't think it is.

    Just my two cents...

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