Gyratory traffic schemes, extended one - way systems etc

Not sure that this is the right thread to move the discussion from the Aldwych Rider Down thread, but it is at least partly about a gyratory. First quoting in full, then chopping up for a reply.

two way would certainly help... and, true, a painted cycle lane wouldn't do much.

but also, there's plenty of space here to separate cycles and other traffic entirely. which would eliminate the kind of interaction between cycles and stopping buses that seems to have caused this accident...

Well, that was bound to come up. :) It wouldn't bring any advantages, chameleon, and would only generate a set of problems which in Central London is insurmountable. People often think that all that is required for segregated cycle tracks is space. However, the main things that are required for them to 'work' (i.e., for them not to cause so many problems) is low levels of frontage activity and low levels of side street interaction. There is no chance of either of these things ever happening in this area, not that segregated tracks would be desirable here even then.

The issue here isn't bus-cycle interaction; that is often demonised way out of proportion. The issue is the interaction between all four lanes (or five at the Kingsway junction, I think) that causes cyclists to be timid about getting in the right lane. Once the street is made two-way, this issue will disappear in an instant.

One shouldn't try to apply segregated tracks as a blunt, non-specific remedy. There is a place for them in certain environments, where they can have specific purposes, but Central London, by and large, isn't one of them. You could have such tracks in unusual streets like Lambeth Palace Road, for instance, but not in a lot of places. There are a lot of myths surrounding their benefits, and for many people they are a kind of ideal that fills them with hope. However, the reality of street design in London is hard work without any panaceas.

(By the way, we've been through this sort of thing many times in various guises. Back in 1997, LB Hackney came up with a design for contraflow segregated cycle tracks all around the Shoreditch gyratory. The local group then made a principled decision not to go for these but to hold out for full two-way working. Strategically, this has always been the right move. Compare this to the decision by the Camden local group in the 1990s to support segregated tracks. In the time since then, they've managed to get two tracks in, both of which will probably not last that much longer, and have achieved virtually no change in the traffic environment of central Camden, in marked contrast to what's been happening in Hackney. The Camden group are now campaigning much more strongly for permeability, following Hackney's example.)

oliver, what's your evidence base here?

cycle-bus interaction is a big problem - maybe not for you, but for many other less experienced or confident cyclists, certainly. it has resulted, as you know, in several recent deaths and injuries in central london.

protected space for cycling isn't a blunt, non-specific remedy. it's a very specific remedy where cyclists interact with heavy bus and hgv traffic (which is many places in central london). car/cycle accidents at 20mph or less tend to be less serious - and cars have better visibility. cycle/hgv/bus accidents, even at low speeds, often kill and maim. it's just true that safety here, where traffic is mixed, depends mostly on the competence and alertness of the driver of the large vehicle, and to some degree on the competence of the cyclist, and neither of those can be guaranteed. it's better to rely on safety by design.

the majority of cyclists (and those who would like to cycle) feel safer (and, in most cases, it appears, are safer) when not mixing with buses/hgvs

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2011/02/02/ip.2010.028696.full.pdf?sid=a2ed422a-9dbe-409a-b762-40e0ffbcedc6

have you been to manhattan recently? many miles of new protected space for cyclists - often on avenues with plenty of frontage activity and side streets - appear to have resulted in a significant increase in cycling.

http://transportationnation.org/2011/07/28/breaking-new-york-city-biking-is-up-14-percent-from-2010/

what is needed, certainly, is a degree of imagination in terms of the re-thinking of roads and junctions, and a political willingness to take space away from private cars.

(and, obviously, you're right - it's way better to remove a gyratory entirely than try to fit it out with cycle lanes.... but that doesn't mean that protected space shouldn't be part of the redesign..)