Old and new Campy 10 speed compatibility

Fake OEM? It can't be fake if it's OEM - THEY are making it. Just because it's the same frame Pina chooses to use doesn't make it fake. Pina made the decision to purchase an OTP Chinese made carbon frame. If that OTP Chinese frame is sold to other brands or made available that's for them to decide.

Pinarello, etc. will lose customers because they are painting something made in China and adding £2k to the price tag for their brand to be stuck on it. People will still pay for the brand name but if this is watered down due to Italian companies out-sourcing to Chinese carbon manufacturers that's the fault of the Italians not the Chinese.

Chinese setting up and taking market share where? With what? You mean selling ACTUAL Pina frames? They might get away with it in China where western companies are pretty slack at pursuing IP infringements but they'll clamp down on it quick smart if the Chinese tried to sell Pina branded frames outside their borders. China does have IP and copyright laws.

Japanese motorbike manufacturing stole their ideas from western manufacturers, really? I know bugger all about motorbike history but as far as I'm aware Honda and Kawasaki don't copy the west, they invented a better product at the expense of the failing western options - similar to their smaller, better cars taking the place of gas guzzling Aussie and US makes during the oil crisis in the 70s.

Silk as an example, really? That was 2000 years ago..
http://www.silk-road.com/artl/silkhistory.shtml

If western companies want to keep using generic frames built in China and overcharging us for their logos then it's their own fault if we decide generic is 'good enough'.

The japanese took over the small motorbike market, because no one took them seriously...the same thing is going to happen with the bike market if we continue producing bikes in the far east rather than protecting an industry which has spent millions on R&D. Originally the japanese manufacturers copied modular manufacture techniques from the british industry. They also copied the german HOREX engine, the bmw flat engine and the revolutionary MZ two stroke engine. Yamaha and suzuki only started winning after they got hold of the mz engine design. In the end yes they did become successful because british bikes were shit..but they still copied large parts of their designs.

Pinarello charges £2k because of the price of r&d and everything else...sure the actual product might only cost 200 dollars to make, but thats not what you are paying for...next you will be telling me a car should cost the price of the materials and the labour to put it together.

Yes it is the fault of the italians outsourcing, thats why compagnolo are wise to keep their brand inside europe. Just because someone pays you to make their frames doesn't mean you should go out and sell blank ones. Chinas idea of ip and copyright is laughable, there is a reason why it is where the majority of fake products come from. You try setting up a factory knocking out fake luis vuiton handbags anywhere else in the world, you'd be shut down and sued to death in no time.

The way you are talking it is as if the chinese are the ones designing these things, they aren't...they are merely the manufacturers...who are knocking out unpainted extras on the side and selling them. Pinarellos attempt to keep costs down by outsourcing is going to come back to bite them in the arse. The dogma frame contains 7 years of research and development, but they are made in china those 7 years have to be paid for somewhere...not by knocking out oem ones.

Yes i did use silk as an example, because it was one of the last example of the chinese actually inventing something completely by themselves rather than imitating usually poorly products from other countries. Go look up a list of chinese inventions, you will see what i mean. Christ they even produce fake food, like fake rice from plastic and poison their own people with baby milk tainted to fake the protein count in tests.