Oh and Pigfarmer, for someone who dishes out the hate on the best groupsets ever you don't seem to have ever used it by the way you talked about it. Maybe if you tried it you'd see why winners use it...
When you say winners, do you mean people with medals and trophies, or Charlie Sheen wannabes?
When you say winners, do you mean people with medals and trophies, or Charlie Sheen wannabes?