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Crack-n-fail mtb's are notoriously breaky. In any case, there's a big difference between carbon now and then - back then they were building carbon frames in the same way as steel or alu, without taking into account the relative values/strengths of the material. Now everything is oversized to shit and layered up so much that you really have to do something pretty drastic to fuck with it.
They ride Downhill on carbon rims and frames now - with confidence. This really is the end of the argument - if they can do that then I'm more than happy to ride through a 1,000 potholes on my road bike
Yeah - I agree, it's a totally unreasonable arguement. However, such is the nature of reputational damage :) Also, I honestly can't see a carbon frame lasting for 20+ years in the same way a steel or (i guess) Ti one will, they seem a little more 'throw away' which doesn't sit as comfortably to me.
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Also, I honestly can't see a carbon frame lasting for 20+ years in the same way a steel or (i guess) Ti one will.
That because carbon is still a new material in cycling, I think they experiment with it in the late 80's and then slowly getting introduced in racing by late 90's (AFAIK), thereforth only exist for a short period of time, not long enough to make a rational comparison with steel/ti.
Does anyone know when carbon started to become the norms in racing?
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That because carbon is still a new material in cycling, I think they experiment with it in the late 80's and then slowly getting introduced in racing by late 90's (AFAIK), thereforth only exist for a short period of time, not long enough to make a rational comparison with steel/ti.
Does anyone know when carbon started to become the norms in racing?
No. Carbon will definitely go soft/lose strength after a few years. It's the nature of the material. UV light, and moisture are both enemies of carbon, and bikes are exposed to both. We don't need to wait 20 years to know this will happen.
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That because carbon is still a new material in cycling
Maybe, although I never thought that about Ti when it was new, perhaps because it was more similar in form to the steel / alu bikes that were around at the time.
I get the impression that carbon bikes are built with the expectation that the owner will use them for a few years then updgrade / replace, whereas with top end Ti bikes (and boutique steel frames I guess to some point) there is some expectation that it will be the last bike that the owner buys. Could be talking rubbish.
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^ Worst Roflcopter ever.
If you squint it looks like a 70s wallpaper pattern.
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What, ugly amateurish CNC work? Shimano Hollowtech cranks are much more interesting.
Sorry to go back to this but aren't these cranks from the mid nineties? When CNC machining like this was deemed awesome, especially when produced by the likes of Race Face? (I had Race Face on my Rocky Mountain and the machining marks were clealy visible and everyone would be like "whoa, CNCd cranks, they're the shit!) Was hollowtech even out back then? must be bordrline. Ferbros are still awesome for me.
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carbon frames are more likely to outlast steel... UV will fade it but not damage it and it will only soften if moulded over a foam core which is very outdated. People are happily riding the original Look KG frames and the giant CADX frames from decades ago, with the only reported issues being bonds between alu lugs... new carbon frames have all but eliminated alu inserts so these should last until the end of time.
crash any frame and its toast, steel alu or ti. The bike for life reasoning/ argument is often used as as justification for the extra expense of certain materials of expensive fabrication techniques. The reality is that we all will buy new frames and may as well get the most appropriate tool for the job and these days that is clearly carbon fiber for race bikes. It can be easily tuned for ride quality and stiffness at a reasonable cost.
Other materials have their place. I love my mercian, but wouldn't harp about the ride quality, stiffness and longevity compared to my race bike. If anything the 725 frame is more fragile than my cervelo.
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^^^^ +1 on the UV & Moisture damage to composites.
In the UK we don't get as much UV as some other European (france/spain) countries or the States, but moisture we get lots of, even in soggy damp summer :/I think the point DFP raised is very valid, carbons are for the top end lightweight/ race orientated end of the market (generally) and so are going to be developed to have every reasonable ounce of weight cut out of them, wheras a lot of aluminium because of the nature of the material (tubing & welding etc, hydroforming being only way of really manipulating tubes) its going to have excess material in certain places.
So its still not really comparing like with like, super light race carbons vs. average joe aluminium vs. regular steel tubes & weld just aren't that comparable.I've snapped 2x steel hard tails before (DMR trailstars with too much fork under them :S) and when they went, I'd noticed handling had suddenly become like that of an american chopper bike, a fellow rider pointed at my gaping head/down tube and shouted to stop, as I stopped the action of the brakes (rear doing more work than front, and weight thrown to front of bike) ripped the frame apart in comic fashion.
I walked home. But at least it hadn't ended in hospital like it could have if the frame had gone in a more instant manor. -
I've snapped 2x steel hard tails before (DMR trailstars with too much fork under them :S) and when they went, I'd noticed handling had suddenly become like that of an american chopper bike
Was this the LT Trailstar and how much fork? Only asking as I ride one and have been considering 130mm fork
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On the whole carbon debate, I am now a PhD student in engineering materials so know a bit about composites. I'd say the jury is still out somewhat on carbon. Aircraft manufacturers, traditionally one of the most ultra-conservative industries with regards to new materials and processes, have started getting confident in use of carbon for airframes on a radical scale (wings and fuselages as opposed to just spars and exterior panels). It could be argued 'if it's good enough for them...' and that would be a fair point, though having said that this is very, very high grade stuff. Carbon is sensitive to manufacturing defects, and also to accident damage. This damage is often invisible as carbon tends to fail more catastrophically in layers under the surface at an impact point, meaning only a scan will reveal the full extent of damage that may look minor or even invisible to the eye/touch. Damage will allow a route for water ingress and subsequent delamination. With good coatings, there is no reason why water ingress should be a particular problem, but the generally rapid failure of carbon as opposed to steel would worry me. You might have some delamination and cracking at the crown of your forks, and not see it, then a pothole could just cause them to crack off. Personally since I don't race, I'd prefer a material which fails in a more predictable and slow way, and which often bends under impact rather than simply snaps. The point made previously about having to check any frame regularly is completely sound. I don't ride aluminium because I've seen plenty of examples of slow fatigue leading to sudden catastrophic failure in many engineering applications involving cyclical loading. I have no reason to believe that with good materials engineering and over-design, this would be likely to happen, but then maybe I'm ultra-conservative when it comes to safety too. People who ride big steel bikes still get hit by buses, so it's all swings and roundabouts I suppose.
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Spotted a lass on a sweet shopper style ride near holborn tube on Monday, it was grey, with white skyways and purple tires, anyone seen this or know where it's from, would be perfect for my missus!!
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Is that going to be the total sum of your contribution from now on? Snarky comments?
Just let us know so, if you don't plan on acting like an adult, we can go back to keeping you on ignore.
Thanks.
what the fuck are you babbling on about? Am I not allowed a sense of humor in this forum? Please put me on ignore as I dont want to read your stuck up comments. I obviously posted a load of nice bikes before that post, so your talk doesn't make any sense to me go back to sleep and leave me alone
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@Velocio
So Ti bikes are unlikely to boil then.