Bob Jackson (Vigorelli, etc)

Just giving my opinion based on what I've seen. Older ones seem to be well finished, the new one I saw was not, and for that reason (plus their current customer service rep) I'd be reluctant to give them any money.

But I guess £413 total for an 853 f&f sounds like good value.

As for tubing choice, if you're going for a quill stem set up I would t worry too much about it.

no £413 for 631 tubing. Its 413+180+60 for 853 f+f, so thats 653 pounds.

so its £605+ vat for 631 super vigorelli vs. £653 for 853 bj.

I know cxp33 arent shallow but I already have one of those! I think I might prefer open pro's though, not too sure yet...Its just if I am using low flange hubs I thought the cxp would be better to increase stiffness...