Bob Jackson (Vigorelli, etc)

Personally I wouldn't buy a new BJ unless it was from a shop and you could fully check it over yourself. I saw a frame fairly recently and there were loads of little touches that weren't done to the standard you'd expect (especially given the price). Messy brazing, lug lining, etc.

Part of me would love one, but i just cant see the point in buying one. To me it Seems like you're basically paying a premium without getting a preium product. My 2p, save up another £100 and get Mercian.

Definately for the road. The only track here is an outdoor one thats not too steep. It could work on both if I had any intentions oftaking it to the track in the future.

Yeah, I dont think there is 853 rear triangle tubing, just main frame.

I assumed the geometry on the Vigorelli was quite good, a mix between track and road, with more emphasis on track geometry but I could be wrong. That would be ideal.

So what about 725 rear stays vs. 853 fork blades?

I was completely set on getting a 1" threaded setup. It looks so much cooler in my opinion. Once you know what bars and stem length you want I dont see a difference. Having tried pretty much every type of handlebar I'm set on drops, probably something similar to B123s. There are loads of cheap quill stems for sale second hand and I would get them to put on the headset at BJ.

Also for the wheels, black CXP33 or silver Open Pro?

The Mercian is 605 +vat for 631, the bob jackson is 413 in total. I dont think that the bob jackson is expensive when you look at the cinelli gazzetta or something like it.

As for aesthetics, I was thinking panaracer paselas and all to go with the quill stem, low flange hubs, shallow rims, brooks...

Just giving my opinion based on what I've seen. Older ones seem to be well finished, the new one I saw was not, and for that reason (plus their current customer service rep) I'd be reluctant to give them any money.

But I guess £413 total for an 853 f&f sounds like good value.

As for tubing choice, if you're going for a quill stem set up I would t worry too much about it.

CXP33s aren't very shallow. I wouldn't bother with the Pasela's personally, they puncture much too easily in my experience.

Part of me would love one, but i just cant see the point in buying one. To me it Seems like you're basically paying a premium without getting a preium product. My 2p, save up another £100 and get Mercian.

Good point Hugo. The lug lining on mine is pretty poor TBH.

I'd love a Rouke in OS 853, with a carbon fork. Might get an audax in that spec when I'm in the position to go on longer rides.

I assumed the geometry on the Vigorelli was quite good, a mix between track and road, with more emphasis on track geometry but I could be wrong. That would be ideal.

The seat tube and head tube are relatively steep. As you may expect from a track frame. But the frame has big clearances for fatter tyres. This lengthens the wheelbase slightly.
I like the geometry of mine. It rides very well.

So what about 725 rear stays vs. 853 fork blades?

If you mean using fork blades for the seat'n'chain stays. Then it sounds like overkill to me. But ask BJ.

I was completely set on getting a 1" threaded setup.

When you climb out of the saddle this will flex. Not much at all, but why get all fussy about rear end stiffness and then introduce flex elsewere?

Also for the wheels, black CXP33 or silver Open Pro?

Depends on use. The cxp33's are slightly stiffer, the OP's slightly lighter. Both build into quality wheels.
The differences are so slight you may as well go with what you think looks best.

Just my thoughts^

Everything he ^ said especially this:

...you may as well go with what you think looks best.

Just giving my opinion based on what I've seen. Older ones seem to be well finished, the new one I saw was not, and for that reason (plus their current customer service rep) I'd be reluctant to give them any money.

But I guess £413 total for an 853 f&f sounds like good value.

As for tubing choice, if you're going for a quill stem set up I would t worry too much about it.

no £413 for 631 tubing. Its 413+180+60 for 853 f+f, so thats 653 pounds.

so its £605+ vat for 631 super vigorelli vs. £653 for 853 bj.

I know cxp33 arent shallow but I already have one of those! I think I might prefer open pro's though, not too sure yet...Its just if I am using low flange hubs I thought the cxp would be better to increase stiffness...

If you mean using fork blades for the seat'n'chain stays. Then it sounds like overkill to me. But ask BJ.

No, I mean the fork would be 853 instead of 631, but the crown would probably be the same, so just 853 blades

No, I mean the fork would be 853 instead of 631, but the crown would probably be the same, so just 853 blades

I would'nt bother personally. The standard fork performs well enough. By going with something in skinny steel tubing with steel fork, you're basically building a cruising bike. Its quite possible the 853 main triangle will reduce weight and add spring, which would be nice. Again you'd have to consult BJ on that one. But this is never going to a painfully stiff sprinting machine. So just go with it.

Again all just opinions and mumblings.

Doing some hill circuits on the BJ tonight. Really need to sort those front hub bearings.

Tighten inner nuts to 'oh-shite' Nm?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate that it may not make a significant difference while riding...

On a side note, how do people feel about Velocity Aero vs Mavic Open Pro. I like the round shape of the aero but most topics seem to be on aeroheads. A silver 36h aero rim would be pretty sweet

Thanks for the help, I appreciate that it may not make a significant difference while riding...

On a side note, how do people feel about Velocity Aero vs Mavic Open Pro. I like the round shape of the aero but most topics seem to be on aeroheads. A silver 36h aero rim would be pretty sweet

The open pro has eyelest which help wheel building, and allow slightly higher tensions. The OP is a tad lighter too.

Open pros are popular for a reason.

I had a wheel with a Velocity Aero rim, it looked good and the round section was a nice change of pace from the regular box or V shape rims. Plus the relatively shallow section made building a breeze. That said, if you already own a CXP33, just get another one and build your wheels with them, they are nice enough and should be easier to get your hands on. (CXP33 have these plastic bits inserted into the spoke holes right? That should help make building a bit easier)

Can you get machined Aeros?

Besides it's a bit 2007:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86796100@N00/3365179005/

I feel a bit like RPM today; it's just a bike.

...this is never going to a painfully stiff sprinting machine. So just go with it.

+1

They make very nice fixed road bikes. Closer than most to old Path frames. Trying to build in stiffness with your choice of wheels is slightly missing the point of these bikes IMO. Your not a heavy guy so a nice set of box section rims (such as the open pro), along with a Brooks and Paselas will make it a very comfortable ride in keeping with the character of the frame.

Nitto 123 bars are for short sprints, and wont work well with hoods so you might want to rethink that a bit. Nitto do a few other options (such as the 125s) that might be more suited.

Word on the mean streets of Leeds is that Bob Jackson has gone out of business. Word is also that Woodrups have bought them out. Although apparently they haven't got the rights to sell frames under the Bob Jackson name, apart from the stock they have acquired with the takeover.

As I understand it, Bob Jackson had the Rights to Hetchins as well.

Anyone got any idea who's bought or buying the rights to build Hetchins & BJ frames?

Some pennies to be made there...

I can't find anything public about it other than this very old thread.
Road Bike, Cycling Forums

There's also this about Hetchins and BJ in the past:
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/history.php

not heard that one myself and asfaik bob jackson aren't able to label bikes as hetchins since the late 70's. They just use the curvey tubing still on there own bikes...

it wouldn't surprise me if they went under, i found them unhelpful and lacking in customer service, the guys at woodrup however seem great, met one of the owners the other week at the york show and he was lovely, had some interested 953 frames on display and seems to have a healthy interest in the art of it and the joy of riding rather than making cash

Woodrup brought them out? that'd be odd since Woodrup were founded by Bob Jackson's old framebuilder.

The above info was passed on by a loyal Woodrups customer, so one might say has come from the horses mouth.

It seems a but strange that they've gone under now, when the seem to have had a revival. ESP with the BLB frames. Could it be that they were just bought by woodrup?

Found on another forum:

OK once and for all, despite several ongoing rumours Bob Jackson Cycles (1993) LTD are NOTclosing down.

The respray, frame building and frame repair dept are continuing on as always however as the retail shop has been non profit making (despite mine and my staff best efforts!) and effectively subsidised by the factory side for a good few years the Director took the business decision to close the retail shop and concentrate on the stronger side of the company.

To this effect the shop closed on Friday 5th August. With the closure came the sad redundancies of myself and Andrew Sowden the shop mechanic. Daryl continues upstairs in the factory.

The factory now has had a rejig and has a 'consultation' room where Customers are welcome to visit to discuss their frame building and respray requirements.

With the shop closing so ends my 11 year stint with Bob Jackson Cycles. I would like to thank all the folks on TTF who have supported the shop in anyway and wish you all the best for the future. I would also like to express my thanks to Donald and all at Bob Jackson Cycles who have made the last 11 or so years fun and entertaining.

That makes much more sense.

I can confirm the shop has closed (I cycled past it yesterday) and it would seem that the framebuilding etc is carrying on.

They've updated their website to reflect this.