Locks that work

I've already answered this one in the stolen bikes thread, but clearly it needs saying here to. Yes, it is a sport. One that provides invaluable feedback to the lock manufacturers. Don't assume that just because something can be used for evil means that all people that do it are evil. Most of them just like a challenge.

That and they are bloody useful to know when you loose your keys or are trying to decide on new locks.

Depends on the lock, for bikes I would totally agree with what you are saying. One of the reasons it became competitive is because it's not easy to master. For yale type house locks then you don't even need to pick them, just get a set of bump keys* for under £15.

*(And unless you have good 4+ lever mortice locks on your home don't google bump keys as it will scare the crap out of you)

I've already answered this one in the stolen bikes thread, but clearly it needs saying here to. Yes, it is a sport. One that provides invaluable feedback to the lock manufacturers. Don't assume that just because something can be used for evil means that all people that do it are evil. Most of them just like a challenge.

That and they are bloody useful to know when you loose your keys or are trying to decide on new locks.

Yeah, sorry, only saw there was a "lock" thread after posting....

I agree (thought it looked quite interesting), and was actually thinking of going myself but then beer and the nocturne swayed my thinking.

I broke into my house using a door stop and a bottle of coke.

what's your address again and when are you next on holiday?

^^^^^ This is a mini bottle jack. It is becoming a preferred lock-breaking tool of the professional bike thief. This was what was discussed with me by the Snow Hill Safer City Wards Team the other day.

The reason I'm highligting this particular issue, is because this type of lock-breaking may then significantly narrow your choice of locks to use, and how to use them.

For example, today, with this in mind, I used the Edscoble-locking-method for the very first time. As I've said before, its genius. One aligns the crank in line with the downtube, and when locking the rear wheel and downtube to a secure object, if the lock is big enough, make sure the crank is locked within the locking space (gap inside of the lock shackle).

I still found that there is quite some room still in my GRPS lock, even though my rear wheel has a 43mm deep rim. But I felt much more secure about the way it was locked, than previously. Simply using one of the locks from the list, doesn't guarantee safety from theft, but it encourages the thief to move on to less well protected bikes. Even Edscoble, who is very security savvy, had his Abus Granit-X 54 broken the other day. This happened because the bike was locked outside, and the thief had a long time to try to break the lock. No lock is break-proof. But the better the lock, the longer it will take to be broken.

For this reason, the Kryptonite Fahg Mini IS one of the best tools to fight this technique, because the very small gap for locking is filled, and a bottle jack cannot be inserted. Another smaller lock (and at first I thought it too small) is the (Halfords) Magnum Plus Mini. Being even smaller than the Fahg Mini, a bottle jack cannot be inserted, but then again, I think there is only space for locking one wheel to the frame. And, no, not a very deep section wheel either.

So, make sure when you lock up, that the locking space (gap within the U-lock shackle) is as filled much as possible. The mini bottle jacks are as small as a fist, and some have 20-30 tonne ratings.

In a very high risk area, consider removing the front wheel, and locking it together with the rear wheel and the frame. Of course, if only using one lock, make sure if possible its 18mm in thickness, big enough for the job, and totalled filled when locked.

Didn't mean to ramble. Hope it might be helpful.

The mini bottle jacks are as small as a fist, and some have 20-30 tonne ratings.

So you say that you can break even a Krypto NYL Standard with such an mini bottle jack?

I think that lock you refer may be rated at up to a maximum of 10 tonnes expansion breaking limit. So yes, bottle jacks rated at 20-30 tonnes should be able to break it. That's why its so important to fill the gap within the lock as completely as possible. A bottle jack that can't fit within the lock, is a bottle jack that cannot trouble you.

So you say that you can break even a Krypto NYL Standard with such an mini bottle jack?

see here: http://quickrelease.tv/?p=327

I think that lock you refer may be rated at up to a maximum of 10 tonnes expansion breaking limit. So yes, bottle jacks rated at 20-30 tonnes should be able to break it. That's why its so important to fill the gap within the lock as completely as possible. A bottle jack that can't fit within the lock, is a bottle jack that cannot trouble you.

Didn't kryptonite release an attachment for their locks that is designed to stop them from being targeted by bottlejacks? If I remember correctly it is a hardened steel bar that slides diagonally over the shackle so that the jack cannot push against it. Will try to find photo.

Ooops there is a video of it on danns' link up there^^ doesn't look as good as I remember it. Infact it looks pretty inconvenient no wonder it didn't make it past the prototype stage!

Here's how I lock using a single Abus Granit-X 54

The front wheel has a skewer which needs a funny shaped allen-type tool to undo it. Seatpost and handlebars are just attached with unprotected allen key nuts. I might try the ball bearing thing.

Here's how I lock using a single Abus Granit-X 54

The front wheel has a skewer which needs a funny shaped allen-type tool to undo it. Seatpost and handlebars are just attached with unprotected allen key nuts. I might try the ball bearing thing.

That is excellent. 10/10.

1 Attachment

Apart from dog piss on your lid.

:)

^^^^^ This is a mini bottle jack. It is becoming a preferred lock-breaking tool of the professional bike thief. This was what was discussed with me by the Snow Hill Safer City Wards Team the other day.

The reason I'm highligting this particular issue, is because this type of lock-breaking may then significantly narrow your choice of locks to use, and how to use them.

In light of this, what do you think of chains as a secondary lock? As far as i know it is impossible to break a chain with a bottlejack, because the the jack can only extend to a few inches.
A light to medium size chain to lock the front wheel + frame to the bikestand. With the back wheel + frame locked by a Fahg or X-plus, or something similar.
The thief would have to use both bolt cutters and a jack to get to the bike.

What might also be interesting is the 13mm chain from pragmasis as a primary lock. I know its not 100% uncropable, but pragmasis claim that most of their staff can't crop it under lab-conditions, even with irwin record 42" croppers. It needs a strong and heavy guy with very high quality 42" bolt cutters and a lot of practice to break one.
Might be worth the tradeoff if it can't be broken with a jack.

Apart from dog piss on your lid.

:)

^This

I just thought it rained every afternoon whilst I was at work?

In light of this, what do you think of chains as a secondary lock? As far as i know it is impossible to break a chain with a bottlejack, because the the jack can only extend to a few inches.
A light to medium size chain to lock the front wheel + frame to the bikestand. With the back wheel + frame locked by a Fahg or X-plus, or something similar.
The thief would have to use both bolt cutters and a jack to get to the bike.

What might also be interesting is the 13mm chain from pragmasis as a primary lock. I know its not 100% uncropable, but pragmasis claim that most of their staff can't crop it under lab-conditions, even with irwin record 42" croppers. It needs a strong and heavy guy with very high quality 42" bolt cutters and a lot of practice to break one.
Might be worth the tradeoff if it can't be broken with a jack.

Interesting proposition. I shall get in touch with Pragmasis and give some feedback later. Provisionally it seems like their 13mm special steel chain may be a winner. We shall see.

This seems a suitable place.

Yep, steel becomes brittle when immersed in liquid nitrogen. If you are worried try to find a shackle made of stainless steel as the chromium stops the steel becoming brittle.

Liquid Nitrogen is not really a common method used by bike thieves. Needs too much effort and time investment.
The stuff is expensive and not easy to get. Unless you are a physics/chemistry student. But bike thieves are pretty rare among those.
Plus, you would need to find a way to immerse the lock in it for some time. Preferrably stripping the plastic from the lock first. Just pouring some on the lock is not enough.

In light of this, what do you think of chains as a secondary lock? As far as i know it is impossible to break a chain with a bottlejack, because the the jack can only extend to a few inches....

What might also be interesting is the 13mm chain from pragmasis as a primary lock. I know its not 100% uncropable, but pragmasis claim that most of their staff can't crop it under lab-conditions, even with irwin record 42" croppers. It needs a strong and heavy guy with very high quality 42" bolt cutters and a lot of practice to break one.
Might be worth the tradeoff if it can't be broken with a jack.

A very good idea. The 13mm Pragmasis chain is indeed an excellent option to a U-lock, but it is not as strong as the u-locks in the list (on page one of this thread), nor the chains. Yes, it is ideal for many if not most situations, but Pragmasis themselves say that it can be cut by a big guy with extra long bolt cutters. I won't recommend it for that reason. But I do think its a viable alternative for any that wish to try it. It won't go in the list though.

^ anyone worked out how to get that combo for the £41.75 as quoted on bike radar- or is that out of date? Also, having not had a chain lock before - what's an adequate length for use with a bike?

I think the price from the bikeradar article refers to the 11mm chain. Because pragmasis do not sell their 13mm with the Master Lock padlock.

For a chain the size and weight of the 13mm, i would take a length of either 0.8m or 1m. Any more and it will be too heavy and unwieldly. 0.8m is about the same usable length as a normal size (not mini) U-lock.
For locks, i am undecided. The Untouchable is lighter, but it might be even more fiddly to use then the squire 50cs.

see here: http://quickrelease.tv/?p=327

Thanks. That is why I love this thread! Provides me with loads of useful info I can´t get in Germany so easily.

I´m almost shocked that my Krypto NYL Standard can be broken by a mini bottle jack. Now I know why you guys buy a Fahg Mini. I´m wondering if I shall sell my NYL Standard and buy a Fahg Mini instead. I´ll sleep one night over it ...

wapiti, I don't see why you'd need to sell your lock and buy any other. If you can lock your bike in exactly the same way as in the picture at the top of this page, no bottle jack can trouble you.