framebuilding courses - quality of outcome?

I am very interested In doing a framebuilding course, undoubtedly it would provide me with an insight to professional skills in brazing, alignment and so forth. My big question, however, is that of the quality of the frame you leave with. The materials would be good and obviously I would have professional supervision but I can't imagine my first ever frame would be first rate quality. Surely skills in fine brazing take an age to learn? I wouldn't want to leave with a second rate frame with sloppy joints... Maybe I am being pessimistic?

Maybe you are being pessimistic.

I haven't done a frame building course, yet, but I am signed up to do Dave Yates' course next year. If you look on his website, there are lots of pictures of frames made on the course and reprints of articles about the course. Dave assures us that you can learn to braze in a week.

My first frame may not be "first rate quality" but it will be one that I built myself, and that in itself will be worth it.

I have taught about 5 courses here in Montreal so far, and I will say that the quality of your first frame all depends on how much time you put into it after you leave the course. Depending on what kind of frame you build, if you build a fillet brazed frame, the instructor will make sure that your fillets are solid, but not necessarily nice looking. After that you will need to make sure you spend the time filing them.
Good framebuilders have gotten good by mastering the art of brazing without having to clean up, but don't let anyone fool you into thinking the first frame they cranked out they didn't spend hours filing and sanding it to make it look respectable.

If you are really concerned about appearances, I would recommend building a lugged frame at first, as there is a little bit less to clean up. you have to make sure your lug lines are clean, but that is much easier to "finish" than a really sloppy fillet on a bottom bracket (almost impossible to clean up nicely). You can also do things to make finishing work easier like using plug-in dropouts instead of tab-style. Little things that while they won't show you have superior crafstmanship, will allow you build a better than average quality frame.

Drop daccordi a line, he built his cyclocross frame on the Dave Yates course and it looks great.

Didn't Skully do it too?

Does the Dave Yates course include fitting, to workout what you should actually be building?

Does the Dave Yates course include fitting, to workout what you should actually be building?

I don't know but I imagine so. The course lasts week and several years ago, when I had a custom frame built, I spent a couple of hours with the builder getting measured up and talking specs. So I guess in the week there will be time for this.

I am interested in making a fillet brazed frame as I already have two lugged frames. I imagine a professional can build a frame in a day so I guess that in the week that the course lasts, there will be enough time to tidy up the frame.

I've done the Dave Yates course and I was very pleased with the outcome. I did a lugged frame as he said they generally come out better with beginners and did no work to it afterwards, it got sprayed after the course so I just left it there for him to do. Dave is an excellent teacher and keeps a very close eye on you so that you don't cock up, he would also not let you leave with a non structurally sound bike.

He will help do the sizing, has a size cycle thing and will go over tube selection with you.

Amazing course I really enjoyed it and would love to do it again!

http://www.lfgss.com/thread31668.html

...especially AlexB's posts.

Didn't Skully do it too?

Was about to, but end up getting Yates to build him a frame instead.