Different Strokes For Different Yokes

BMMF, have you tried riding a little wider in the road?

?

That kind of "safety flag" was the panacea solution in Finland in the 80's before cyclists were kicked out of most urban/suburban roadways.

All cyclist agreed that it had no effect whatsoever on overtaking distance.

BMMF, have you tried riding a little wider in the road?

Yes. I've never been a kerb-hugger, but I have tried moving out even further. Unfortunately it seems that the type of driver in question is so adamant that they must get in front of me, they'll squeeze me even if I'm more than halfway across the lane and there is oncoming traffic.

I'm going to stick with the upping the authoritative tone of my signals/gestures/glances for now, plus 'switching' rather than drifting (well in advance) when I need to pass nearside obstacles.

Thanks for all the thread contributions. It's been quite thought-provoking/informative/edutaining/etc.

The further from trying to look cool I get and the more I realise it's about being really bloody sure that drivers understand what I want to do, the more blatant and exaggerated my gestures get. Especially when dealing with traffic behind me. I haven't noticed much difference in terms of the type of bike I'm on (dickheads are out there no matter what your ride I reckon), but being ott with my communication seems to reduce the likelyhood of them imagining they are hard done by when I shift position for what I assumed was a bloody obvious reason.

I notice a huge difference in the space drivers give me when I'm riding a loaded touring bike as opposed to a more "normal" road bike or brief road sections on the mountain bike. I'm pretty sure this is due to their perception of how wide I am with my bright orange panniers.

The only exception to this seems to be the North Wales bus and coach driving community who seem to have decided that a tourer can be passed even closer than any other vehicle. I guess they may also be assuming that if I ride long distances I can take it??

I notice a huge difference in the space drivers give me when I'm riding a loaded touring bike as opposed to a more "normal" road bike or brief road sections on the mountain bike. I'm pretty sure this is due to their perception of how wide I am with my bright orange panniers.

I notice this with my trailer too, my theories is that the wheel at the back give the driver an idea of how wide a bicycle is, whether a single wheel give them the illusion that bicycle take up a lots less space without factoring the size of the person on the bicycle.

To the drivers, seeing a wheel on each end usually make them overtake me as if I am a four wheels vehicles (which I am) and more tolerance of me taking the lane (ditto to my tourer too),

It's nice to see that they actually overtake me properly as the highway code stated (overtake as you would a car).

^ Scoble & Son removal co

You now have to rename yourself BromptonMeMyFolder.

#probablyanoldjoke

Rather than judging me

When I go from riding my fixed bike to my BMX I'm always surprised by how much room I'm given. I've always put it down to a combination of the erratic pedaling, wide bars and the general publics perception of how a BMXer might think/act compared to the smooth, fast and streamlined riding position on my fixed gear. I do tend to ride all over the road on my BMX though.

I'm going to stick with the upping the authoritative tone of my signals/gestures/glances for now, plus 'switching' rather than drifting (well in advance) when I need to pass nearside obstacles.

+1 to this and to Wrongcog's comment.

When they see you really paying attention it makes them do likewise... sort of... mostly...

All this seems at odds with the idea that generally road users will give riders they perceive as "vulnerable" more space. I would say little wheels=more vulnerable (in appearance at any rate). Certainly fixed gear/SS riders that know what they are doing don't look vulnerable and so are probably squeezed a bit more (If they let it happen...but then they can handle it too) so I'm an struggling to see why you might be having these issues.

Could the twitchy bars be making you look back less than you might otherwise? Try looking back and smiling. It really does work wonders - except if you have an ironic moustache in whcih case everyone just thinks you are a knob with shitnosed grin.

There are plenty of reasons given in the thread as to why this might be happening. I don't think vulnerability affects anything - you should've seen how close some people got when I had a childseat on the rear (not on the Brompton).

This is more along the lines of 'perceived 'weaker' road user (in a misguided hierarchical sense) needs to get the fuck out of my way'. I've also stated I hadn't adjusted my riding style initially. I was being as assertive as usual, and looking back as much too (a lot).

I can let all that go, but the suggestion I might have an ironic moustache is unforgivable. Fuck you.

Expand the experiment BMMF, get a wig and flowery dress on.

Looking forward to a full report next week! Oh and good luck :)

I only wear that kind of thing in the privacy of my own home these days.

I'm more curios of what Faith is wearing, considering with what she have to deal.

When I go from riding my fixed bike to my BMX I'm always surprised by how much room I'm given. I've always put it down to a combination of the erratic pedaling, wide bars and the general publics perception of how a BMXer might think/act compared to the smooth, fast and streamlined riding position on my fixed gear.* I do tend to ride all over the road on my BMX* though.

made me smile

When I go from riding my fixed bike to my BMX I'm always surprised by how much room I'm given. I've always put it down to a combination of the erratic pedaling, wide bars and the general publics perception of how a BMXer might think/act compared to the smooth, fast and streamlined riding position on my fixed gear. I do tend to ride all over the road on my BMX though.

In the TFL study "Drivers' Perception of Cyclists" (TRL 549) they examined various factors (different bikes, different clothes, different riding styles etc ) that might effect motorist behaviour towards cyclists. Here's a few paras of conclusions from the qualitative research:

Drivers consistently awarded space, speed reduction and more caution to the stunt cyclist than to the professional cyclist or the everyday cyclist (although the differences between the everyday cyclist and professional cyclist were marginal). It was also found that, with the everyday and professional cyclists, drivers were more likely to concede speed than space and more likely to concede space than caution. Similar proportions of all driver types said they would drive more cautiously, slow down and give more room when overtaking the stunt cyclist – the general impression being that this cyclist is less predictable and thereforewarrants special attention.

However, this summary of the findings does not disentangle what factors are doing what to motorists' perceptions and how these different perceptions translate into actual behaviour in a road environment.

Back to the OP. When I used to ride a folding bike regularly, I did notice a change in others' behaviour, but it was mostly from cyclists (who seemed to take umbrage at being passed by someone with small wheels) and pedestrians who would laugh, point, stare, or talk to me about the bike (that was before folders became more popular though).

However, I can't say I noticed too much difference in general road user behaviour when I rode a Brompton, Trek, or Birdy. That said, I would contend that there is a discernible change in the way motorists treat you on the road when you ride an unusual bike, i.e a recumbent, a unicycle, or a laden cargo bike..

In the TFL study "Drivers' Perception of Cyclists" (TRL 549) they examined various factors

Thanks for the link: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_drivers_perceptions_of_cyclists.htm

Interesting paper that is utterly crap, cause the writers were probably ignorant of best practice cycling and how it helps also motorists, so they fail to notice that the needed solution is to cyclists to use best practices and the motorists told how and why cyclists should/do behave like that.

...the needed solution is to cyclists to use best practices and the motorists told how and why cyclists should/do behave like that.

It's so important. A bit of driver education is what is needed. Good road positioning etc is seen as stupid cycling by most drivers. If drivers have never ridden properly themselves they're not going to have considered why a cyclist might ride that way. As it stands many cyclists haven't either.

Thanks for the link: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_drivers_perceptions_of_cyclists.htm

Interesting paper that is utterly crap, cause the writers were probably ignorant of best practice cycling and how it helps also motorists, so they fail to notice that the needed solution is to cyclists to use best practices and the motorists told how and why cyclists should/do behave like that.

Have you read the paper?

Look at the findings on pp.19-24 re: cyclist positioning and behaviour and how this affected driver perceptions in scenarios with refuges, cycle lanes and cycle lanes combined with refuges:

Different road positions were considered as were other variables:

a cyclist travelling straight ahead along the road to the left hand side of the carriageway;
a cyclist travelling straight ahead along the road in the centre of the carriageway. This cyclist was positioned so that they were outside the area designated as an advisory cycle lane in the Worlds where a lane existed;
and a randomised ‘wobbly’ cyclist, who veered back and forth at random within fixed parameters.

What we need to do is to simply give cycle training to the driving instructor, this way the instructor will able to teach the motorists on how to work with a cyclists on the road.

methinks that'd make a huge impact.

@origamist: it is not a TfL study but TRL for DfT.

@origamist: it is not a TfL study but TRL for DfT.

Thanks, I often conflate them when I'm typing. It's particularly poor considering I gave the TRL report no in the same sentence!

I like the bit where they say drivers give more space to "stunt" cyclists than to "everyday" or "professional" cyclists.

Last week I saw on a Balham High road in busy traffic, a guy who carried a woman on top tube and large shopping bags on the handlebars. Looking at the traffic behaviour, I am deducting that they were "stunt" cyclists as described in the report.

I must stop being so professional.