Newbie frame advice (and now project)

haha - nice. well hope you got it close to 99p ;)

well I offered £60 for the frame, forks and stem. Then I ended up chatting to him for an hour about biking, he was in a club and had 4 or 5 and what my plans were for to restore the frame etc. So he goes into the attic and pulls out the original campagnolo chainset, hubs (rims had been replaced with Mavic GP-4), one of the weinmann brake levers and an old 105 BB. so we settled on £85 for the lot, which seemed like a fair price that he was happy with.

He also has the original Mavic rear derailleur but i'm planning either SS or if I do go for gears it will be campagnolo.

My only worry is that, as it says in the eBay ad, ' stem will not come out without some persuasion'. So any tips on removing that would be great!

As you can see from the last few shots that after 30 years the paintwork has seen better days. Once I've got the stem out it will be sent to the powdercoaters.

Can anyone recommend a powder coaters and chrome platers near Leamington Spa, maybe in Coventry or Birmingham.

haha - nice. well hope you got it close to 99p ;)

well I offered £60 for the frame, forks and stem. Then I ended up chatting to him for an hour about biking, he was in a club and had 4 or 5 and what my plans were for to restore the frame etc. So he goes into the attic and pulls out the original campagnolo chainset, hubs (rims had been replaced with Mavic GP-4), one of the weinmann brake levers and an old 105 BB. so we settled on £85 for the lot, which seemed like a fair price that he was happy with.

He also has the original Mavic rear derailleur but i'm planning either SS or if I do go for gears it will be campagnolo.

My only worry is that, as it says in the eBay ad, ' stem will not come out without some persuasion'. So any tips on removing that would be great!

As you can see from the last few shots that after 30 years the paintwork has seen better days. Once I've got the stem out it will be sent to the powdercoaters.

Can anyone recommend a powder coaters and chrome platers near Leamington Spa, maybe in Coventry or Birmingham.

As you can see from the last few shots that after 30 years the paintwork has seen better days. Once I've got the stem out it will be sent to the powdercoaters.

Can anyone recommend a powder coaters and chrome platers near Leamington Spa, maybe in Coventry or Birmingham.

It's a cool frame, made from decent tubing, but you only paid £60 for the F&F. Spending another £60 on powdercoating isn't worth it. Spending another £50-200 on whatever bits you want chromed really isn't worth it.

I know you're probably not going to listen but that frame ***IS ***in perfectly good condition, especially for 30yrs. The *last *thing it needs is a respray. If you want a gerneric powdercoated lugged road frame, I think you'd have been better off just buying one.

You'll **never **get that paint job back and it looks wicked. Yes it's your bike and your money, but I guarantee you'll regret it.

Every single piece of 'damage' can be protected, touched up, or covered up. The first pic I've quoted will be covered by the rear brake cable. The second, will be covered by the crankset - so just treat it and touch it up. The third, really won't notice and you could touch it up.

At some point later I'll edit my post with my Mercian illustrating the difference some elbow greese and tcut can make.

I don't mean to go on, but people always, always, say "the frame needed to be resprayed because of the condition", and 9/10 times they're just wrong.

Your bike will get knocked and scratched as you ride it. You just need to get used to it. If it was an uber-rare frame to build period correct for sunny Sunday afternoons only, I'd understand. But it's not.

At the end of the day its your bike and your money, but just try treating and touching up the paint first, then decide. Please.

SSproject - good work. That's a lot of bike for the money. And keep the paintjob, it's well good.

Bargain! Nice.
Leave the frame, it has character, you'll regret painting it!

best improvement is to use 'frame saver' on the inside, so it wont rust inside to out ! cheap, diy and not worth not doing !
agree with touchup outside.....it looks to good to re-coat

stem, loosen stem bolt, drizzle wd40 or similar down between stem and h'set, leave overnight. repeat. with a wooden block (inbetween stem and hammer) tap with hammer( hard ???? ) on stem to loosen rust/lockbolt........carefully !!!!!!!! it should be ok as you can also carefully clamp the forks and use the stem to carefull twist to free rust/gunk......heat is the final solution only !

It's a cool frame, made from decent tubing, but you only paid £60 for the F&F. Spending another £60 on powdercoating isn't worth it. Spending another £50-200 on whatever bits you want chromed really isn't worth it.

...

I don't mean to go on, but people always, always, say "the frame needed to be resprayed because of the condition", and 9/10 times they're just wrong.

The money has nothing to do with it. Yes I am building on a budget from second hand parts, and its not going to be a show bike but even if I bought a frame for only £10 I would be more than happy to spend £60 getting it powdercoated if I wanted to because I enjoy working on it and the whole point of building my own for the feeling of knowing that I worked on it.

Anyway, panic not. The morning after buying the frame I picked up some T-Cut, autosol, cloths and a large tub of 'elbow grease'. Now that I've got the stem out I can give it the best chance before deciding what I want to do with it.

Thanks for the tips on stem removal slowstephen.

I sprayed the stem and forks with teflon lubricant and left them for a day but the stem was still rock solid, so decided to head down to the workshop to try a stronger method of persuasion. First thing I did was make a wooden jig to hold the forks in the vice without damaging them. Then stuck a solid bar through the head of the stem and applied force until it started to rotate. This was enough to break the oxidisation bond between the stem and frame. Then turned the frame upside down, stuck a bar with a smaller OD inside the head tube started showing it who was boss with a hammer, hitting down onto it, which went through to the stem.
In the pic you can see the thick layer of gunk that has built up on the outside of the stem. Its come out without any damage at all.

Having looked at the chainset in more detail the date code is a diamond with a number 7 inside which I believe dates it to 1977.

Does anyone know anything about the wheels I got with the bike? Do you recognise the hubs / rims?

Good work there. Glad to see you have an idea what you're doing. I'd still leave the paintjob though, unless you get it painted metallic orange.
The rims are Mavic GP4, which are meant to be very tough, however they are tubular. So you'll probably want a new clincher wheelset for ease. I can't recognise the hubs, but I'd guess campagnolo record.

Glad you're holding off the respray for a bit.

If you do go the respray route, and you are thinking of chroming stuff, you might want to think about wetspray as it will be a nicer finish. 2pac is meant to be a bit more durable, but with less colour options - still worth a look. However, modern paint isn't as durable as old paint.

Here's my old Merican before and after:

Before:
http://static.lfgss.com/attachments/13990d1250855445-mercian1.jpg
http://static.lfgss.com/attachments/13991d1250855445-mercian2.jpg

after:

The previous owner was adamant that it was too far gone and needed a respray. Luckily (IMO) he sold it to me. The frame had a sort of ingrained dirt/discolouration, and was much worse than yours. I sanded off the dirt with a worn down sanding sponge and loads of GT85. With yours it looks like just using gt85/oil and gently sanding the rust patchs with fine wirewool would do it. Because most of your frame is white/cream, I think you'll be fine using something strong like jenolite in small doses to protect.

Then just touch up if necessary.

I'd recommend waxing it afte you've used tcut. it makes a big difference and helps to protect it. Just any normal 'wax-on/wax-off' style will do.

Sunday TopGear + a tube of Autosol (sounds wrong, I know)

unfortunately the stem has some deep marks where the previous own must have tried to force the headset to unscrew while the stem was still jammed in place. The Oxidisation area has also left a lot pitting.

Seeing this topic looks the best to ask my question in i thought id ask here. I have been looking to build my own fixie for a while now, and sitting in my garage i had an old bike... after already spending alot of time stripping the bike down and sorting the frame out etc sanding, cutting cable guides off... now im scared i have the wrong frame and i wont be able to run the right wheels or all together the geo could be completely wrong. The bike is a Raleigh MIRAGE..

Thanks
Chris

I've done a could of quick photoshop visuals of how the project could progress.
(sorry to whoevers original donor photo A is)

A)

The reason why I used this photo was I think this bike looks amazing, classic, simple and I'd be very happy if mine finished that well.

B)

This just doesnt work, Looks like a mismatch.

C)

If I stick with the white + stickers I'd need to be heading towards restoring the original race look.

Seeing as the brakes are going to be doing the all important stopping is it worth going for something modern or do lots of people go for a set the same age as the frame, like these, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOS-70s-Campagnolo-SUPER-RECORD-brakes-long-reach-NOS-/360340911308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e5fdf4cc#ht_4540wt_1139
Any brands to look out for?

buy a complete modern groupset

B. looks nice, classic colours. It would also look good with black saddle/bartape

^^ he wants a single speed, not geared. That bike is just for illustrating the colour scheme.

Re brakes. You want modern duel pivot callipers. Old ones are really shit in comparison. The levers/hoods depend on what you like and the bars you are using. I supsect you will be using a classic shaped bar like this:

Rather than a modern bar like this:

In my limited personal opinion the lever is mainly about the shape. At the end of the day it is a stick of metal with a hinge. So go with what you like the shape/look of. Classic bars sweep down, where as modern ones tend to have flat sections and so modern levers a designed to fit with this.... sort of like this:

As for colour scheme, black (or dark brown) brooks leather tape and saddle, keep the paint job as it is. Or black saddle and matching bright red bar tape to pickup the red panels on the frame.

Thanks for the tips hugo, if i'd gone for those old brakes you might not have heard from me in a while.

shopping list;
Brakes: modern for stopping power
Bars: Classic, the previous owner said he had some really nice Cinelli ones on with a slightly narrow width.
Levers: is it ok to team classic levers with modern brakes or does that also equal no stopping power?
Colour: Got to be A or C

Braze-ons: they look very weird with no gear shifters on them. Is it possible to remove them without damaging the paintwork much (heat / file) or is it something people do before respraying. Is there any other clever way of covering them up? Can you touch up small areas of paint if you get a good colour match?

I've done some research into the frame and found out it is a 1988 Raleigh, made in Worksop. The colours and decals are infact from the sponsor 'Super U', and not Castorama as the the previous owner though, as the team (lead by Fignon) was not sponsored by Castorama until 1989.

I now really like the colour and decals and am going to do my best to restore it and fit it with parts from that era. I've spent some time cleaning up the frame and paintwork and its come out well.

Also got some Cinelli 64 - 40 Giro D'Italia off eBay for £20.
bits of tape stuck to them but in good condition.

Well done for not jumping the gun on the respray. I think it's always nicer to have something unique. Looking forward to seeing it progress.

see, that's a helmet I would wear... where can I get me one of those?

ebay. Called a hairnet helmet.

ebay. Called a hairnet helmet.

Its actually a hairmet, with a hollow upper section. designed to keep your barnet intact even on the windiest of days

anyway, I've not updated for a while and have now got post of the parts in, either from forum classifieds or eBay. Some have been bargins and a couple of treats!

The frames come up really nice and i've found a perfect colour match to touch up a couple of the larger areas of rust to stop the spreading. I told you lot it didnt need powder coating, but would you listen...

Campagnolo areo seatpost, slight scoring on the lower half but I really wanted one that have the logo stamped into the sides.

New white turbo saddle

Athena Brakes

C Record brake levers, will be run in aero setup

Chorus Pedals, best looking pedals I have ever seen!

Athena chainset, more in keeping with the age and style of the build.

Chorus bottom bracket, new

STi cable stops. I dont want to damage the frame by removing the lugs so will cover them over with these aluminium cable stops.

Wheels should arrive next week from another forum member and then I'll make an order at wiggle for all the last bits, chain, tyres, SS conversion kit, bar tape, etc...

I'm excited for the final build. Glad you've kept to a theme and gone fully campag.

Any updates on this build? What was the paint you used for the colour match?