Risk assessment of assertive cycling

True rhb,
Though it's often easier to use the shortcut 'safe' when communicting to the masses.
The 'More trips...' expression was focus (folkus) group tested and it resonated with folk

Regarding the 'more trips, more safely' mantra - though I take Skydancer's point about 'safe' not being a good word because it implies that there is 'danger', my own point about using 'low risk' rather than 'safe' with trainees was prompted much more by wanting to use relative rather than absolute terms.

Telling trainees that something will 'make them safe' is just misleading. Saying that something (like staying out of the doorzone) will make them safer or 'more safe' isn't so problematic to me, though overall the terminology of 'low risk' is better.

So more trips MORE safely more often I don't think is so problematic - whereas telling people to, for example, 'only make safe trips' (I made that up, but some road safety pamphlet may well advocate such a 'strategy') is to use just the kind of language I think should be avoided.

this is a very interesting question, and one which i discuss frequently with other cyclists...
personally, I believe that in order to be an assertive cyclist in this city, it is very important to be confident, and (this might be controversial)... FAST.
I think that if you maintain an assertive position on the road, then you must be able to keep a relatively high-speed in order to not aggravate drivers. I mean, i hate even saying that - it is their responsibility as drivers to think of our well-being and respect our right to the road, however, this is not always the case as I'm sure many of us have learned the hard way.
I basically do a combo of the two... and make sure that if i'm in the situation where I'm holding up a car and CAN pull to the side allowing them space to overtake safely, I will.
I guess it all depends on the rider. My girlfriend is an experienced cyclist, but rides pretty slow, so I've always told her she should stick to the side of the road - and she agrees this works best for her.

I somewhat disagree with saying that you should ride fast in order to gain respect from other road user, the implication that if you cannot keep your speed up, you should just walk instead, or move away nearer to the side of the road (of which tend to be a bit scarier with passing vehicles at 30mph).

I've been riding at a gentle pace for the last 7 months on my heavy duty town bike, my average speed was 10mph and frankly, the more the road user get used to cyclists travelling at a gentle pace, the less annoyed they'll be, the only time I got honked at or shouted at when I'm not on the cycle lane (Clapham Common's notorious for speeding vehicles buzzing past you).

I understood the notion behind going a bit faster (17mph on average), as it does make it easier for the motorists to filter by with ease and of course being able to be very assertive at that speed, but I rather get everyone to ride and not just the speedy commuter who regularly ride at 17mph on average.

It's a good theory to discuss, however even cycling fast in the flow of traffic will upset the haters.

It strikes me that for some road users (all modes, inc bikes) braking is an exceptional event, therefore anything that forces braking is seen as unreasonable and has anger directed at it - how the anger is expressed is then what can cause major trouble, where the vehicle itself is used as a weapon of intent then the larger the vehicle the more dramatic the act of aggression will appear to the recipient.

Still the minority across all modes, but an increasing one maybe in this time of travel being an 'arrive now if not sooner' activity? If so, risk of cycling will continue to increase, as it will for pedestrians also.

It's moreso due to the fact the motorists often get held up in traffic a lots, so what usually take them only 30 minutes to drive 10 miles into London took them at least an hour, if not more.

That account for the whole 'arrive now if not sooner' activity, a comedian quite rightly says that in London, if the light is green, go on, if it amber, go on, if it turn red, oh go on, only three more cars.

This was posted to CTUKs General instructors forum for comment. Though it would be of interst here:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZWFqfAMvsY"]YouTube
- KJ05WUM aggressively impatient close overtake[/ame]

Can you translate what was spoken in the video David please?

No, actually the most deangerous place to be is a situation where there is massive direction differential aka intersecting paths.

...and roundabouts as mentioned

#couldn'tjustletitgo

Can you translate what was spoken in the video David please?

3 beeps of the horn

Driver pulls over in front of cyclists
Cyclist points to camera on his head saying "what's this what's this?"
He then says "what is wrong with you get lost" and reads her number plate aloud
He says "you are on camera, wind your window"
She winds it down
He says "learn to bloody overtake"
She says "i''m going to report you to the police"
He say " i'm going to report you for your shit driving"
She drives off
"he says "Stupid woman"

Now do "12 Angry Men"!

isn't "1 stupid woman' enough mark?

Ta David, sound like the driver have no idea whatsoever that what she was doing is considered dangerous.

Have very similar incident in London a couple days ago, driver did the same but end up sideswiping me and my handlebar managed to knock the side mirror off.

I rolled up and said "any closet and you'd be filling a statement to the police about my death just so you can get to the traffic queue ahead 5 second earlier"

If that was a helmet mounted camera he didn't look back once....so i would say shit driving which could have been prevented by the rider communicating with the people behind him. Recumbent though, i would say...with a silly little mirror.

I dig his point (in one of the text boxes) about her being so impatient to get around him, but then fine to sit around and argue the point. Also, it seemed as though he struck the car....which i myself have done and defended it by saying "so you were so close to me that you think i could have hit your car?" it usually works. I've also had a guy accusing me of hitting his car when I was at the rear of a snake.

Your last sentence might leave non-trainers with the wrong impression of you.

what gives you the impression that this impression would be wrong?

i suspect that Will is referring to the fact that non trainers will be wondering what on earth you are doing at the rear of a snake and have their minds filled with strange images about you fausto

I can't say i am that impressed with how he dealt with the incident. Yes, he is right but it just comes across as another arrogant cyclist.

Mind you, I ve done the same myself .

3 beeps of the horn

Driver pulls over in front of cyclists
Cyclist points to camera on his head saying "what's this what's this?"
He then says "what is wrong with you get lost" and reads her number plate aloud
He says "you are on camera, wind your window"
She winds it down
He says "learn to bloody overtake"
She says "i''m going to report you to the police"
He say " i'm going to report you for your shit driving"
She drives off
"he says "Stupid woman"

many of us will have regretted our actions in the heat of the moment when we feel our life has been threatened. I think though that it isn't arrogance that causes this reaction from cyclists but fear, just as drivers reactions in similar circumstances is often born out of the fright of almost killing someone

but I do think he was looking for fight and his was hardly the behaviour of a gentleman.

Perhaps, he could have started with an "excuse me "

If that was a helmet mounted camera he didn't look back once....so i would say shit driving which could have been prevented by the rider communicating with the people behind him. Recumbent though, i would say...with a silly little mirror.

I dig his point (in one of the text boxes) about her being so impatient to get around him, but then fine to sit around and argue the point. Also, it seemed as though he struck the car....which i myself have done and defended it by saying "so you were so close to me that you think i could have hit your car?" it usually works. I've also had a guy accusing me of hitting his car when I was at the rear of a snake.

I don't think any amount of communication would have had any effect on this driver. ;)

I'm just glad I wasn't sitting left here, else I feel sure I'd have had a high speed 40mph pass that would have been just as close, and far more dangerous. At least by sitting out in the road I got a much slower overtake.

Like most of you I don't generally agree with striking cars, but in this case I felt I had no choice for my own safety.

As for "silly little mirror", they allow excellent views, far better than looking behind. Although I have plenty of my own riding faults, I'd like to think my rearward observation is far far better on the recumbent than almost all other upright riders I see, including instructors whilst being examined. It's not very easy to look behind on a low racer as reclined as this one without a mirror. I'm not even particularly pro- or anti-mirror, and I don't have any on my fixed Langster since they're not necessary on uprights.

p.s. the video was copied and uploaded by another user - just google for KJ05WUM if anyone wants to see it again. Privacy complaint by the driver - unjustified, but YouTube's legal policy avoids them having to deal with lawsuits by just taking down videos.

but I do think he was looking for fight and his was hardly the behaviour of a gentleman.

Perhaps, he could have started with an "excuse me "

I could have been calmer, true, but it's not easy after some particularly risky driving like that gets the adrenaline going. At the time I remember feeling quite happy with myself about how restrained I was towards that driver. Remind me, what's one of the most famous LFGSS quotes involving D-locks again?

If you'd like to watch YouTube channels involving particularly aggressive and shouty cyclists, I could link some for you. They are not hard to find. ;)

Looking for a fight? I think not, I'd have been happiest if she'd waited behind, and overtaken me safely like all the other drivers did there. I upload perhaps 1 in 5000 driver interactions, which is heartening and shows just how nice and how well most drivers behave. This bit of driving was perhaps the worst in 100,000 I've encountered.

welcome to the forum Mikey;)

Thank you! I have some footage of a rather good brakeless fixed rider to upload, btw. I loved his riding.

p.s. I'm not sure I want to get into the brakeless debate, but this guy I was super happy to ride with, and totally confident to have him following me. And that despite the awesome braking performance of a recumbent in the dry.

As for "silly little mirror", they allow excellent views, far better than looking behind. Although I have plenty of my own riding faults, I'd like to think my rearward observation is far far better on the recumbent than almost all other upright riders I see, including instructors whilst being examined. It's not very easy to look behind on a low racer as reclined as this one without a mirror. I'm not even particularly pro- or anti-mirror, and I don't have any on my fixed Langster since they're not necessary on uprights.

I'll wholeheartly agree with that sentiment, you remind me of another point about having mirror on the bicycle - you might end up not looking back as regularly as you should after aquiring a mirror, and looking back is a very powerful tools to communicate with other road user.

fair enough, the recumbent doesn't give you the ablitiy to look back comfortably.