Goods Vehicle Safety - What do you think of this idea?

Probably easier to forget about trying to make a difference and just keep my wheelnut wrench in my pocket instead of my pack!

Was thinking about carrying a can of spray paint and a stencil with the words "I drive like a cunt". Wouldn't achieve much but would make me feel good.

You can take a horse to water...

Personally, I say fuck 'em. Darwinism innit?

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Given that one of the factors in the problem is a perceived lack of awareness, or an perceived inability or unwillingness to take on certain information, is it really a constructive or valid approach to say fuck it, let 'em die? That suggests to me a failure in achieving a appropriate solution.

I think it just emphasises the point that there are already a range of measures being taken to address it and that as much as you'd like, you just can't help some people. As a cyclist it should be obvious that you're the bottom of the food chain and you should act like it, ie with a sense of awareness and knowledge of the risk involved. Thing with bikes is that it's like having kids, any numpty can do it. But saying that, I am well against any kind of registration or licensing for bikes as it totally contradicts the freedom of bikes. Bikes are awesome but a lot of people who ride them aren't.

Possibly the best thing would be to make it compulsory for all vehicles of a certain size to have the signs mentioned which warn cyclists of the dangers on them that are eye level for cyclists. Can't see that happening though.

I also think that perhaps this thread would be much shorter had master scoble posted one of his many pearls of wisdom.

Agreed. I started this thread for feedback on my idea which I duly received and have taken on board. Didn't intend to become general discussion.

Master Scoble always arrives when he is needed. You wait and see...

Good effort in taking the initiative to kick off such a discussion again, Stonehedge. As part of our 'No More Lethal Lorries' campaign, we (LCC) have produced cards that give this advice. The cards have two sides--one showing this simple graphic ...

... to advise cyclists, and the other showing our five-point plan to improve the situation.

1 Cyclist-awareness training for drivers All city lorry drivers should have ongoing cycle-awareness training, including on-bike experience.
2 Drivers must take more responsibility

Authorities must recognise driver responsibility for doing everything practical to reduce risks. Blaming a ‘blind spot’ should be an admission of guilt.
3 Safer design for London lorries

Lorries designed for off-road use should be taken off city streets. The best mirrors, cameras and sensors should be fitted as standard.
4 Higher standards from lorry operators

Quality-assurance schemes such as London’s Freight Operator Recognition Scheme (FORS) should be mandatory, and the police encouraged to crack down on rogue operators.
5 More responsible procurement

Companies must only buy haulage services from reputable firms, with government taking a lead in encouraging best practice.

We think that these steps are what needs to be done. All are eminently achievable and cover all the aspects of the problem. The campaign is led by Charlie Lloyd, who's charlie_lcc on here.

Awareness-raising, as Jono and others have pointed out, is important but it tends to be given the wrong emphasis, as in that dreadful, tasteless, and wrong 'undertaker' poster, but the most important thing is to get things changed for the better--and, curiously enough, you don't always get that done by awareness-raising.

Anyway, the more that can be done about this, the better. With cycling generally becoming safer in London (much as it was low-risk to start with), it is doubly urgent that we address the persistent anomaly of cyclists as lorry victims.

Thats all good stuff Oliver.

What do you think about handing out similar cards with sales at bike shops?

I'd be interested in getting involved and helping if there is anything I can do to contribute.

I think it just emphasises the point that there are already a range of measures being taken to address it and that as much as you'd like, you just can't help some people.

That isn't quite the right angle, I think, Zoidberg. You're right that people make stupid mistakes, but one of the main things, as to err is human, that we have to do is to increase the tolerance that our traffic environment has for such mistakes. It is simply not acceptable to tell people that they must not make mistakes.

As a cyclist it should be obvious that you're the bottom of the food chain and you should act like it, ie with a sense of awareness and knowledge of the risk involved.

I disagree with this, too. I know you probably don't mean it like this, but it sounds like a very passive acceptance attitude that we sometimes call 'cyclist inferiority syndrome'. It arises from the fact that if, and it's a big if, one is in a collision with a heavier and more powerful vehicle, a cyclist will come off worse. However, generalising it across all possible traffic situations doesn't work and is redolent of a victim complex. At the same time, cycling is the ideal mode of urban traffic and some transportation uses, has loads of advantages, is enjoyable, and all the rest of it. All of this puts cycling a lot closer to the top of the urban food chain than one might imagine.

Thing with bikes is that it's like having kids, any numpty can do it. But saying that, I am well against any kind of registration or licensing for bikes as it totally contradicts the freedom of bikes. Bikes are awesome but a lot of people who ride them aren't.

If anything, people who aren't yet 'awesome' enough to pass muster with you need help and support rather than to be left alone, surely?

Possibly the best thing would be to make it compulsory for all vehicles of a certain size to have the signs mentioned which warn cyclists of the dangers on them that are eye level for cyclists. Can't see that happening though.

That's a very small ask as part of a much wider need and has already been done by lots of companies, even voluntarily and off their own bat.

As I posted above, a lot more needs to be done. If you study traffic and understand the problems better, you will realise that while we have a long way to go, many of the best solutions are actually very simple, and there is every reason for optimism and every incentive not just to leave things to 'social Darwinism' or other bogus theory of human interaction.

@oliver schick

To be perfectly honest, I back what I said. My attitude is probably the way it is from my stint on the circuit having seen some horrific actions of people on a regular basis. You sound like a far more well balanced person than me so therefore much better suited to be doing the job that you are. So keep on keepin' on and good luck.

But specifically in reference to your post, people with no common sense aren't awesome in my book. Not saying I'm perfect but it's not like I get lost in Tesco's.

I should probably get off my soapbox now and do some work but there's less chance of that than there is of this problem actually getting solved because there will always be numpty's out there and like you say, always the chance of human error.

Stonehedge, I think my local bike shop would be interested in the leaflets. From my point of view though, reading a leaflet would not have saved me from getting almost wiped out by HGVs three times this year, all on straight roads in good visibility. I don't think my perception of risk has suddenly changed after years of riding in London – it’s the drivers.

Thats all good stuff Oliver.

What do you think about handing out similar cards with sales at bike shops?

I'd be interested in getting involved and helping if there is anything I can do to contribute.

Well, it would depend on whether bike shops would do it. I'm not sure the point of sale as such is a very appropriate place. The message would have to be quite fine-tuned for that particular application. I should think if the message was placed within a couple of other basic riding tips, it would work well, e.g.: 'Enjoy your bike/get cycle training/take care around high-sided vehicles, etc.'. Not too much, keeping it simple, but not focusing only on that message. It would take a good deal of organisation to get bike shops on board, though.

As you say, I think it could be quite a useful medium but its all down to pitching it right.

As discussed earlier, we cannot afford to scare people because newbies are nervous enough as it is on the whole. Focus needs to be that riding in London is fun and safe if you take certain precautions.