Goods Vehicle Safety - What do you think of this idea?

After hearing about yet another horrific accident involving a goods vehicle and seeing so many cyclists undertake long vehicles seemingly unaware of the risks, I have had an idea. I'd appreciate the opinion on whether you think it would improve things.

When you buy a new TV (at least in theory rather than practice) a TV license application form should either be given to you or included in the packaging. This was introduced to raise awareness of the need to have a TV license and make it easier for people to apply.

What if I raised some cash through donations to get a load of small leaflets printed with warnings about long vehicles etc and invite bike shops to give one out with every bike or perhaps accessory they sell? It would be zero cost to them and would at least help new or uninformed experienced cyclists. The bike shop would appear compassionate and the cyclist may absorb what they read if they read it. Its a win for everybody. Perhaps some of the bike shops would donate to the cause too.

I'm not proposing that I produce a handbook covering all aspects of cycle safety, just a warning about the greatest risks facing riders in London. Perhaps there could be a web address on the leaflet/flyer that would take you to a web site with videos and more info. From talking to fellow cyclists I have discovered that many people know that undertaking is a bad idea but don't really know why. A front or rear video of an HGV taking a sharp turn can be a real eye opener even for people who have been on the roads for years. Few understand how much the rear end cuts in and drags.

If successful, I'm sure we could expand to other areas or go national with time.

It wouldn't cost much to produce a large quantity of leaflets/flyers and I'm sure that many cyclists and organisations would be happy to make small contributions to such an initiative. If there was a surplus of leaflets we could arrange days where the leaflets are handed out by volunteers during commuting hours at traffic lights etc.

In my view, even if we save one person from injury or death it would be time and charitable money well spent.

What do you think? Honest opinions please (as if I had to ask!). If its a crap idea I'd rather know now. I'd be happy to get the ball rolling. I'm a busy bloke so would need some assistance now and again though.

It would cost to do that and who would pay for it? Even better, who would read it?

TFL run campaigns anyway specifically for it, have a peep at Moving Target for the thread there.

edit, here: http://www.movingtargetzine.com/forum/discussion/2086/dont-be-an-undertaker/#Item_0

Occaisionally, in the city, the police actually have an HGV stopped and ask passing cyclists, if they have the time to spare, to actually get into the cab and see what the driver sees. Which in regard to cyclists is fuck all.

I admire your intentions but some things are best learnt the hard way for people who don't want to listen or don't have any common sense.

Personally, I say fuck 'em. Darwinism innit?

Cheers Zoidberg.

You're right about people not reading stuff they are given.

As for money, I've spoken to a few firms and have been pledged enough donations to start of with a run of 10,000 A5 impressions.

Agreed on the TFL iniative but I personally think people are more likely to read something they are given with a new bike than pay attention to what is on the back of a bus.

I'll take a look at that thread. Cheers for your thoughts.

And what if the problem is bad visibility from inside large vehicles and not the position of cyclists on the road?

(I'd rather public awareness didn't put fear into cyclists and essentially make them a secondary user of the road.)

If people didn't cycle in the blindspots then the poor visibility is a moot point.

Maybe we could hand them out with the sale of each new lorry :o)

Plus a lot of HGV's actually have signs on the rear warning cyclists not to undertake.

You can take a horse to water...

re the getting in an HGV initiative - whilst well intentioned, this approach once again re-inforces the notion that any accidents involving lorrys and bikes are fundamentally the fault of the cyclist. whilst this may be a contributing factor, the responsibility rests mostly with the vehicle operator that has the potential to cause the greater damage.

/pretty sure we're repeating ourselves ad nauseum here again - hey ho - needs repeatin

Exactly.

I'm not saying that the cyclists are the problem. I'm just looking for another method of communicating the risks.

I just think it is unrealistic that we are going to get lorries banned in the next few years. This is about educating people to minimise risk, not getting lorries off roads, educating drivers or installing cameras and mirrors in the cabs themselves. These issues are being dealt with elsewhere too.

I just reckon its foolish to concentrate on improving the driving of the lorries and/or getting them off the road together when this will take a fair bit of time to achieve and I see so many riders who seem to be oblivious to the various risks.

If we concentrate on both the cause of the problem (the lorries) and how to avoid it in the first place (cyclists riding into danger areas) cyclists theoretically would be a little bit safer.

I'm not saying that the cyclists are the problem. I'm just looking for another method of communicating the risks.

I just think it is unrealistic that we are going to get lorries banned in the next few years. This is about educating people to minimise risk, not getting lorries off roads, educating drivers or installing cameras and mirrors in the cabs themselves. These issues are being dealt with elsewhere too.

And what if by communicating the risks you inadvertently reduce the number of cyclists on the road and cause fatalities to rise in number?

What if you change the behavior of cyclist with regard to road positioning and their passive approach leads to more danger/accidents/risk?

What if you change the perception of cyclists by other road users and they no longer give them enough space/respect/time on the road, again resulting in more fatalities?

You approach/thinking is linear.

Very good points Jono.

We don't want to scare people. New riders and people considering commuting are generally apprehensive enough as it is!

I just want to try to find something that I can do to maybe prevent one accident.

If I didn't see so many cyclists put themselves in a risky position next to long vehicles I would be concentrating on the campaign against lorries itself.

There are three steps in my eyes:

1) Educate cyclists while the lorries are still a fact of life.
2) Educate lorry drivers while they are still on roads during rush hour.
3) Campaign for a ban of long vehicles during rush hour.

there are plenty of people that have thought this before you, and been working hard at this.
join the lcc and help them campaign.

I think it's a good idea. It's easy to say that lorries are the problem so we should focus on this but realistically this isn't going to change overnight. Irrespective of who is to blame, a reckless cyclist or a driver paying no attention, awareness on both sides will help. It will be easier to educate a number of cyclist who have everything to lose if they don't cycle safely than changing the rules about where and when HGV's are allowed on the roads. Anything that makes cyclists on the road more aware is surely a good idea.

Good call BRM. Would be louder than a single voice if I joined forces.

Was only thinking out loud to see if there was something we could do to improve the situation. Its only because I get frustrated seeing riders doing themselves no favours.

yep.
my post sounds a bit abrasive - i didn't mean for that.

Wasnt abrasive...you were just providing a suggestion and advice which is what I'm looking for anyway.

there are plenty of people that have thought this before you, and been working hard at this.
join the lcc and help them campaign.

Worth repeating.

Sorry mate, I didn't see you.

As I drive my four by four over your broken body.

Darwinism, innit.

No mate, you didn't see me because I saw you driving your Chelsea Tractor like a cunt so I gave you a wide birth. Innit breadbin.

On a constructive note though, perhaps it would be an idea to get in touch with Barclays and have them advertise the HGV risk specifically with a campaign on their pillar things that have maps on them by their bike racks, and also their website where you sign up to the scheme. It could be in the terms and conditions of signing up that you have to read and understand and all that jazz. They could possibly even do it in conjunction with TFL. The Boris bikers would be a good demographic to target as if they don't even have bikes personally, they are hardly likely to be all that experienced on London roads. For example, how many wobbly riders on them do you see on them when there's a tube strike? Many.

There is a sticker with a written warning and a diagram on the handlebars of the TfL bikes warning riders not to go up the inside of large vehicles, especially at junctions.

aha!

Trucks should have more indicators along the side and maybe a warning sound like when they reverse, if the dozy buggers still cycle into the blindspots when the trucks are turning left there is not much else that can be done.

I can't help but think that most cyclists tend not to read posters on the back of buses and lorries. I know I dont. I'm normally looking out for the vehicles themselves.

Just doesnt strike me as a particularly effective education tool.

I think Extra Forte is onto something about flashing lights and warning sounds though. Those cyclists do notice...

Considering all the methods already in place, perhaps the only thing left would be to administer a dry slap?